Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

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tomuk
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Ron5 wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 15:51 What is this a picture of? (from the tweet above)

It is an Arrowhead 140 variant, I think its a screen grab from a Babcock video showing the different options assembling.

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

tomuk wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 06:28
Ron5 wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 15:51 What is this a picture of? (from the tweet above)

It is an Arrowhead 140 variant, I think its a screen grab from a Babcock video showing the different options assembling.
Thanks. The mast threw me. Not seen that on a T31 before.

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by BB85 »

I was thinking the government would try what the French did with their Fremm frigates and sell their nearly new T31 once they find a customer (New Zealand) and order a second batch of 2 or 3 T32 to keep the production line running. I can't see the RN increasing to 16 frigates and 6 destroyers anytime soon from a man power perspective.
But if T31 is going to be an export frigate factory we need to find customers to buy the ships.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

BB85 wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:21 I was thinking the government would try what the French did with their Fremm frigates and sell their nearly new T31 once they find a customer (New Zealand) and order a second batch of 2 or 3 T32 to keep the production line running. I can't see the RN increasing to 16 frigates and 6 destroyers anytime soon from a man power perspective.
But if T31 is going to be an export frigate factory we need to find customers to buy the ships.
Sells approach to NZ is very important, I agree. Their Te Kaha/Te Mana replacements are due around 2035. I simply think just selling two (or three) new hulls to RNZN will be a good solution (but it will be T31 family, I guess). Big rivals will be Dutch/Damen, Germany and South Korea. As NZ has a Babcock-NZ operating the dock, it will be important to sale T31 with some work share at NZ. For example, mounting and integrating the 57/40mm guns and NSMs at New Zealand.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by wargame_insomniac »

I would love it if we could sell even a couple of Frigates that were built in uk.

So far we have seen Australia and Canada ordering T26's if built locally and Poland and Indonesia ordering T31's if built locally. Now that in itself is a great start as spreading the design costs over greater number of hulls and the benefit to UK Supply chain of manufacturing some components in UK.

We did see Ukraine ordering one T31 to be built in UK - that would be great but uncertain if that is still happening.

Arguably Ukraine would be better off with gunboats or Corvettes with large number of Canister and VLS. What could UK shipyards offer other than maybe a corvette version of River class?


That in itself would help keep UK shipyards in global Naval warship headlines. But selling a couple of UK built T31's would be even better for keeping Babcock busy for another couple of years until UK can hopefully afford to order MRSS.

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

The agreement in Nov 2021 with Ukraine was for two refurbed mine sweepers and eight missile boats.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/governm ... -of-fleet/

It was always more likely the T32 programme would move to the right than get canned completely.

The best way to give the programme a chance of success would be to remove the word Frigate.

That way politicians will focus on the need for more T26s, which is a real frigate, and equipping the T31 properly. Then the discussion can be on the core T32 core requirements (mothership to off board systems and FCF platform IMO) rather than the usual missiles etc. I think the type Sloop would be more appropriate.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Repulse wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 08:50 https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/governm ... -of-fleet/

It was always more likely the T32 programme would move to the right than get canned completely.

The best way to give the programme a chance of success would be to remove the word Frigate.

That way politicians will focus on the need for more T26s, which is a real frigate, and equipping the T31 properly. Then the discussion can be on the core T32 core requirements (mothership to off board systems and FCF platform IMO) rather than the usual missiles etc. I think the type Sloop would be more appropriate.
I would agree in part that T32 should be a 110 x 18 meter sloop fitted with a good radar good CMS hangar flight deck mission bay and working deck , 2 x 40mm , 2 x 8 round LMM with a Price tag 110 million all in

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by inch »

They can say what they like, promise sharks with lazors on them lol, but government won't even be in power by then so all a bit academic really tbh ,and if labour get in I'm suspecting they will spend what money they can get on social, health care , increasing union pay packets etc etc , there'll be zero left for defence budget or new kit / capabilities I assume in reality

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

inch wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 13:46 They can say what they like, promise sharks with lazors on them lol, but government won't even be in power by then so all a bit academic really tbh ,and if labour get in I'm suspecting they will spend what money they can get on social, health care , increasing union pay packets etc etc , there'll be zero left for defence budget or new kit / capabilities I assume in reality
That certainly was Gordon Brown's MO which has left the armed forces in such a mess. Of course, even worse was that Geo Osbourne & Cameron "improved" and continued Brown's policy. What a shitshower.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

inch wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 13:46 They can say what they like, promise sharks with lazors on them lol, but government won't even be in power by then so all a bit academic really tbh ,and if labour get in I'm suspecting they will spend what money they can get on social, health care , increasing union pay packets etc etc , there'll be zero left for defence budget or new kit / capabilities I assume in reality
* fricken lazors
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Not clear, but at least concept phase is on going with £4Mn budget.


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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

Makes no sense to cut something that isn't really costing anything at this stage....
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

How are they going to create a "competition" to build them?

Mind you the "competition" for the T31's was a complete farce.

Personally I favor the idea of Bae designing the T32's and Babcock's doing the build. A little bit like CVF. So maybe a separate design "competition" and then the build "competition".

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

dmereifield wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 15:48 Makes no sense to cut something that isn't really costing anything at this stage....
Agreed, £4mn is pretty cheap for a political narrative of jam tomorrow.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by jonas »

Ron5 wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 16:31 How are they going to create a "competition" to build them?

Mind you the "competition" for the T31's was a complete farce.

Personally I favor the idea of Bae designing the T32's and Babcock's doing the build. A little bit like CVF. So maybe a separate design "competition" and then the build "competition".
I would still prefer BMT to have a crack at the T32 design. I was not impressed overall by BAE,s T31 effort, and no doubt the would be prone to gold plating it.
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Ron5 wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 16:31 I would still prefer BMT to have a crack at the T32 design. I was not impressed overall by BAE,s T31 effort, and no doubt the would be prone to gold plating it.
jonas wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 14:29 Personally I favor the idea of Bae designing the T32's and Babcock's doing the build. A little bit like CVF. So maybe a separate design "competition" and then the build "competition".
Surely due to the double escort builder structure the REAL competition is in the design process rather than the build.

The idea that either Rosyth or Govan/Scotstoun would be allowed to close is politically fanciful. It’s not going to happen. The political fallout could be existential to the U.K. so the drumbeat will continue for the foreseeable in one shape or another.

The BAE Adaptable Strike Frigate looks like the unaffordable option.

A complete new design by BMT won’t be a cheap option either.

A second batch of modified T31s is the most cost effective Frigate option which is why this remains the most likely outcome IMO.

If money really is tight why not consider a PSV/OPV hybrid rather than a Frigate/MCMV hybrid. It would halve the cost overnight and still require the hull numbers RN required.

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

BMT have already developed a design, the Venator 90… let’s call it a sloop-of-war…

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Repulse wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 17:51 BMT have already developed a design, the Venator 90… let’s call it a sloop-of-war…

Image
Where is the hanger?

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 19:07
Repulse wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 17:51 BMT have already developed a design, the Venator 90… let’s call it a sloop-of-war…

Image
Where is the hanger?
Telescopic on the roof
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 17:29
Ron5 wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 16:31 I would still prefer BMT to have a crack at the T32 design. I was not impressed overall by BAE,s T31 effort, and no doubt the would be prone to gold plating it.
jonas wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 14:29 Personally I favor the idea of Bae designing the T32's and Babcock's doing the build. A little bit like CVF. So maybe a separate design "competition" and then the build "competition".
Surely due to the double escort builder structure the REAL competition is in the design process rather than the build.

The idea that either Rosyth or Govan/Scotstoun would be allowed to close is politically fanciful. It’s not going to happen. The political fallout could be existential to the U.K. so the drumbeat will continue for the foreseeable in one shape or another.

The BAE Adaptable Strike Frigate looks like the unaffordable option.

A complete new design by BMT won’t be a cheap option either.

A second batch of modified T31s is the most cost effective Frigate option which is why this remains the most likely outcome IMO.

If money really is tight why not consider a PSV/OPV hybrid rather than a Frigate/MCMV hybrid. It would halve the cost overnight and still require the hull numbers RN required.
Forgive my ignorance but what is a PSV?
I am assuming the latter two initials stand for Support Vehicle.

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Repulse wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 19:46 Telescopic on the roof
Thats a UAV kennel

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 22:15 Forgive my ignorance but what is a PSV?
I am assuming the latter two initials stand for Support Vehicle.
Platform Supply Vessel
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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 23:30
Repulse wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 19:46 Telescopic on the roof
Thats a UAV kennel
It was designed for helicopters and UAVs.

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Re: Type 32 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Repulse wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 08:26 It was designed for helicopters and UAVs.

Image
Which helicopter? A Wildcat is too large for the dimensions of the structure in the concept.

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