UK Defence Forum

Called it !!!

PS with three models, you think they could have done one in RN colors

Maybe that is the future colour scheme for RAF fast jets? Do we have any idea as to what payload the UAV will have?

Very exciting news (albeit with a typo of Spain rather than Sweden).



Two takeaways:

1) Summer of next year seems earlier than expected and could suggest either a renewed impetus behind the programme or that things have been moving to maturity behind the scenes.

2) It wasn't clear if the Tempest parterners (IT/SE) were necessarily involved in LANCA/Mosquito/Vixen. This implies they are, alongside whatever tech development or potential manned platforms might come from it.

Wondered how long it would take this to make it into the wild

SW1 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2022, 21:50 Wondered how long it would take this to make it into the wild

Unless (and I seriously doubt this is the case) the government has a very impressive alternative then this is the abandonment of 20 odd years of UCAV industrial strategy.



At least: Mantis, Corax, HERTI, Telemos and Taranis reached the demonstrator phase.

The RAF is at a low point in combat mass and the declared solution was to compensate that mass with UCAVs. Instead we have plans for 16x Protector and however many Watchkeeper haven't yet crashed...

Jensy wrote: ↑24 Jun 2022, 22:30

SW1 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2022, 21:50 Wondered how long it would take this to make it into the wild

Unless (and I seriously doubt this is the case) the government has a very impressive alternative then this is the abandonment of 20 odd years of UCAV industrial strategy.



At least: Mantis, Corax, HERTI, Telemos and Taranis reached the demonstrator phase.

The RAF is at a low point in combat mass and the declared solution was to compensate that mass with UCAVs. Instead we have plans for 16x Protector and however many Watchkeeper haven't yet crashed...

I hinted at this in the other thread about that article in the telegraph, decision was made a couple of months ago interesting they choose this evening to release it

SW1 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2022, 22:38 I hinted at this in the other thread about that article in the telegraph, decision was made a couple of months ago interesting they choose this evening to release it

A good night to bury bad news...

To be frank, Mosquito was never the most compelling of ideas or planned out going forward. Seemed like another chance for the government to twiddle their thumbs for another half decade whilst talking up our commitment to 'emerging tech'.

Not exactly a good look for RIAT and Farnborough in the coming weeks.

Be interesting if Australia and The US pursue their loyal Wingman programmes.

On the face of it, fairly crap news. Any idea what it was that killed it off? It seems like between this and the earlier Taranis programme there was a decent shot at an unmanned strike asset at least.

If thr goal is continue with smaller, swarming drone types - how are these to be realised? How are they to be linked go manned assets?

Or is it just a case of waiting for Alvina to bite the dust at this point.

This is probably pretty stupid but... have we killed Mosquito in order to buy the Australian machine off the shelf as a quid pro quo for other aspects of AUKUS?

Rentaghost wrote: ↑25 Jun 2022, 00:03 This is probably pretty stupid but... have we killed Mosquito in order to buy the Australian machine off the shelf as a quid pro quo for other aspects of AUKUS?

Probably a sensible move if it does turn out that way. Some would argue that the UK has spread its resources too thinly for a while.

Additionally, how many UAVs designed to operate in conjunction with E-7s, P-8s and F-35s will the market support?

I’ve read the Loyal Wingman concept is still on the agenda post 2035. This may be about accelerating delivery of capabilities given the lessons from Ukraine.

The Vixen project looks to be at high risk, which will be concerning for the RN given the slow delivery of F35Bs and no guarantee of aircraft being available from the RAF for carrier ops.

Jensy wrote: ↑24 Jun 2022, 22:58

SW1 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2022, 22:38 I hinted at this in the other thread about that article in the telegraph, decision was made a couple of months ago interesting they choose this evening to release it

A good night to bury bad news...

To be frank, Mosquito was never the most compelling of ideas or planned out going forward. Seemed like another chance for the government to twiddle their thumbs for another half decade whilst talking up our commitment to 'emerging tech'.

Not exactly a good look for RIAT and Farnborough in the coming weeks.

Most likely, it may take MoD another half decade to continue to deliberate on what engine it wanted for it!

I suspect tempest will end up being no different.

Others will make and own this tech now and in 10 years time there will be naval gazing about why don’t produce our own and have to buy from someone else. Rinse and repeat!

Like I said before the MOD aren't capable in just about any project , between a government and treasury totally lacking in any interest in protecting the country and total incompetence ,this is where we will end up and will do so again and again

Here’s a theory. - we end up buying a BAE version of the Bayraktar drone as part of a big defence deal with Turkey, Wallace and Truss were there last week talking industrial cooperation.

SD67 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2022, 17:50 Here’s a theory. - we end up buying a BAE version of the Bayraktar drone as part of a big defence deal with Turkey, Wallace and Truss were there last week talking industrial cooperation.

Turkey are going to start trials of the TB-3 on their drone carrier (LHD) this year I understand. Maybe the RAF will look elsewhere, but not a bad short-term stop gap for the RN perhaps.

The key wording in the announcement is 'mutually agreed'....

This means that it wasn't going to work as intended....

We should really be happy that they've stopped a programme for once before it has consumed more funds...its good programme/risk management.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑25 Jun 2022, 19:20 The key wording in the announcement is 'mutually agreed'....

This means that it wasn't going to work as intended....

We should really be happy that they've stopped a programme for once before it has consumed more funds...its good programme/risk management.

Think your reading far too much into that comment, could possibly also mean we’ve given you work on something else to keep to placate you…..

If you want to see what’s changed go and have a read of the telegraph article in the future fighter thread

Aspirations were to great for the investment ! lets hope they r 100% behind project tempest

Written answers 4th July 2022

https://questions-statements.parliament ... 6-28/26699

https://questions-statements.parliament ... 6-28/26717

Too many research projects, not enough products.

Still, gotta keep the boffins busy

SD67 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:17 Too many research projects, not enough products.

Still, gotta keep the boffins busy

Research projects are cheap! Takes money to go to production..

SW1 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:40

SD67 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:17 Too many research projects, not enough products.

Still, gotta keep the boffins busy

Research projects are cheap!

So is pornography....

SD67 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 18:14

SW1 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:40

SD67 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:17 Too many research projects, not enough products.

Still, gotta keep the boffins busy

Research projects are cheap!

So is pornography....

Perhaps combine the two, they can do research pornography projects.

topman wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 19:24

SD67 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 18:14

SW1 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:40

SD67 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2022, 10:17 Too many research projects, not enough products.

Still, gotta keep the boffins busy

Research projects are cheap!

So is pornography....

Perhaps combine the two, they can do research pornography projects.

Is that not what 3 para were doing…