Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Rentaghost
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 07 Sep 2020, 09:10
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 11 times
Scotland

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Rentaghost »

So not only is Mosquito kaput, but apparently the swarming drone squadron has never had any swarming drones? Or even much in the way of staff?

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2727
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 265 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Timmymagic »

Not sure where to put this...


Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2727
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 265 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Timmymagic »

Image

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2727
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 265 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Timmymagic »

Some details on performance...


Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2727
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 265 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Timmymagic »

Image

Image

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2727
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 265 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Timmymagic »

This ones a little depressing really...

Look at what we could have had...

Fury...
Mantis...
Taranis...

Hopefully Zephyr (or Phasa 35) and these UAS concepts will make it rather than be reliant on US supplies...

Must admit I'm a bit stumped on the stealthy one between Phasa-35 and Taranis...any ideas?

Image
These users liked the author Timmymagic for the post:
Dahedd

User avatar
Jensy
Member
Posts: 699
Joined: 05 Aug 2016, 19:44
Has liked: 220 times
Been liked: 86 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Jensy »

Timmymagic wrote: 16 Jul 2022, 00:41 Must admit I'm a bit stumped on the stealthy one between Phasa-35 and Taranis...any ideas?

Image
I share your curiosity!

At first I though maybe a developed Demon, but the wing shape is completely different and obviously far larger if to scale with the other aircraft.

There was some speculation, back in the Anglo-French FCAS era, that a production Taranis derivative might be supersonic, I wonder if this might be it?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16310
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 73 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I can see a B-2 there (on the human evolution scale, the 'man' who walked on his knuckles)
- but clearly, the one emerging at the top :) of this graph ... is a 'Vulcan'
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2727
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 77 times
Been liked: 265 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Timmymagic »

Interesting after Mosquito and B-21 Raider Loyal Wingman cancellation....seems like the RAF and USAF might have finally done their homework and realised that there might be an issue with the concept of Loyal Wingmen at present....

This is the same issue as XLUUV's or any unmanned option.....if you want the speed, range and most of the capabilities of a manned submarine you end up with something not far from the cost and size of a manned submarine...same with UGV's....want a heavily armed UGV working at the front line? Then it will likely end up like a small/medium tank as that is what is required to survive up there...


SomeoneAh
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 11 Jul 2022, 21:15
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SomeoneAh »

It seems the reason RAF talks about that they discovered a better options when developing the Mosquito is the BAE UAV

The decision was informed by parallel analysis and capability experimentation conducted by the RAF and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl). The accumulation of analysis concluded that more beneficial capability and cost-effectiveness appears achievable through exploration of smaller, less costly, but still highly capable additive capabilities.”

SouthernOne
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 23 Nov 2019, 00:01
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 2 times
Australia

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SouthernOne »

Timmymagic wrote: 19 Jul 2022, 14:14 Interesting after Mosquito and B-21 Raider Loyal Wingman cancellation....seems like the RAF and USAF might have finally done their homework and realised that there might be an issue with the concept of Loyal Wingmen at present....

This is the same issue as XLUUV's or any unmanned option.....if you want the speed, range and most of the capabilities of a manned submarine you end up with something not far from the cost and size of a manned submarine...same with UGV's....want a heavily armed UGV working at the front line? Then it will likely end up like a small/medium tank as that is what is required to survive up there...


Sounds like Boeing talking up the concept of operations for the MQ-28A Ghost Bat it's developing with the RAAF.

User avatar
Jensy
Member
Posts: 699
Joined: 05 Aug 2016, 19:44
Has liked: 220 times
Been liked: 86 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Jensy »

LANCA Follow-On (or.. 'Child of Mosquito'..)

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/ ... esults&p=1
Following the lessons learned from Project MOSQUITO, Project ALVINA, and wider Uncrewed Air Systems (UAS) experimentation, the Rapid Capabilities Office (RCO) and Air Capability are considering how to best exploit Low-Cost UAS to support the Combat Air Force Mix as part of follow on LANCA activity and wider Uncrewed System Development.

The Authority will be holding an engagement day on Tuesday 29th November 2022 to inform Industry of Air’s intent for additive/adjunct capability in the Combat Air Force Mix, and to provide Industry Partners with the opportunity to consider how they could best contribute to Air’s intent within a subsequent R&D portfolio.

SD67
Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 09:49
Has liked: 93 times
Been liked: 104 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SD67 »

I hope this is not reinventing the wheel, maybe just join up with the Australian program, who knows it may help ease themm into Tempest

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 3608
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 132 times
Been liked: 318 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SW1 »

SD67 wrote: 01 Nov 2022, 10:04 I hope this is not reinventing the wheel, maybe just join up with the Australian program, who knows it may help ease themm into Tempest
Joining the Australian program would perfectly sum up the stupidity of MoD procurement. If it does needs its budget cut!

SouthernOne
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 23 Nov 2019, 00:01
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 2 times
Australia

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SouthernOne »

SW1 wrote: 01 Nov 2022, 10:13
SD67 wrote: 01 Nov 2022, 10:04 I hope this is not reinventing the wheel, maybe just join up with the Australian program, who knows it may help ease themm into Tempest
Joining the Australian program would perfectly sum up the stupidity of MoD procurement. If it does needs its budget cut!
Not sure why the negativity, as the USAF has already acquired an undisclosed number. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a ... or-testing

As its design incorporates swap-in swap-out nose modules, it offers a comparatively easy and inexpensive way to field a range of capabilities.

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 3608
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 132 times
Been liked: 318 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SW1 »

SouthernOne wrote: 02 Nov 2022, 07:00
SW1 wrote: 01 Nov 2022, 10:13
SD67 wrote: 01 Nov 2022, 10:04 I hope this is not reinventing the wheel, maybe just join up with the Australian program, who knows it may help ease themm into Tempest
Joining the Australian program would perfectly sum up the stupidity of MoD procurement. If it does needs its budget cut!
Not sure why the negativity, as the USAF has already acquired an undisclosed number. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a ... or-testing

As its design incorporates swap-in swap-out nose modules, it offers a comparatively easy and inexpensive way to field a range of capabilities.
It’s essentially a Boeing product so I can see why the US has an interest. It also won’t be the only US aircraft of this type.

Given the last 8 month demonstration in Ukraine I could guarantee over the coming decade these type of aircraft will be the go to for many countries looking to enhance their security.

The U.K. has a large aerospace base and should be making it is own, it will be a critical area going fwd to get out the business before is barely begun is the height on incompetence.
These users liked the author SW1 for the post:
Timmymagic

SD67
Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 09:49
Has liked: 93 times
Been liked: 104 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SD67 »

I that case we should take the Team Complex Weapons approach an build a portfolio of drones with chosen strategic partners
These users liked the author SD67 for the post:
Timmymagic

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 3608
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 132 times
Been liked: 318 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SW1 »

SD67 wrote: 02 Nov 2022, 09:41 I that case we should take the Team Complex Weapons approach an build a portfolio of drones with chosen strategic partners
It would but that strategic partnership should be nowhere near the ghost bat. If you want a long term thinking strategic partner and strategy in this space it should be with general atomics and bringing full assembly mro footprint into the Uk in the same way Raytheon has in broughton and with other uav manufacturers like Malloy who are already here.

bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 2460
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
Has liked: 73 times
Been liked: 47 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by bobp »

Chinese clone of Ghost bat............

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/c ... d-by-china

RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1040
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52
Has liked: 34 times
Been liked: 38 times

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by RunningStrong »

SW1 wrote: 02 Nov 2022, 08:02 Given the last 8 month demonstration in Ukraine I could guarantee over the coming decade these type of aircraft will be the go to for many countries looking to enhance their security.

The U.K. has a large aerospace base and should be making it is own, it will be a critical area going fwd to get out the business before is barely begun is the height on incompetence.
But these are high value drones, which are nothing like what has been seen in Ukraine. It's like saying a Tucano is proof of concept that you need F35.

And I think that's why Mosquito has been taken back to LANCA. The affordability to deploy at scale is how drones are showing their benefit in the battle space.

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 3608
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 132 times
Been liked: 318 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SW1 »

RunningStrong wrote: 04 Nov 2022, 09:25
SW1 wrote: 02 Nov 2022, 08:02 Given the last 8 month demonstration in Ukraine I could guarantee over the coming decade these type of aircraft will be the go to for many countries looking to enhance their security.

The U.K. has a large aerospace base and should be making it is own, it will be a critical area going fwd to get out the business before is barely begun is the height on incompetence.
But these are high value drones, which are nothing like what has been seen in Ukraine. It's like saying a Tucano is proof of concept that you need F35.

And I think that's why Mosquito has been taken back to LANCA. The affordability to deploy at scale is how drones are showing their benefit in the battle space.
Not really, the demonstration is you’re not putting extremely expensive and very limited numbers of manned platforms into a strike mission because in days you’ll have nothing left. There will be a range of different type of drones/missiles but they’ll be doing the striking not manned a/c.

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2533
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
Has liked: 94 times
Been liked: 69 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by Caribbean »

SW1 wrote: 04 Nov 2022, 09:31 Not really, the demonstration is you’re not putting extremely expensive and very limited numbers of manned platforms into a strike mission because in days you’ll have nothing left. There will be a range of different type of drones/missiles but they’ll be doing the striking not manned a/c.
Agreed. You need a range of stuff, from the level of "guided hand grenade", all the way up to something capable of defending 4th/5th gen fighters or conducting independent strike missions in contested airspace

The low end should be relatively simple and cheap - we should already be looking at adapting designs that can be produced in their thousands by multiple manufacturers, using COTS/MOTS components, to carry anything from a mortar round up to (say) Brimstone (see Malloy's recent mock-up). Exploit existing designs in novel ways.

It's the top end where the real money needs to be spent, to protect and assist the very expensive hardware that that it will operate alongside, but the low end should already relatively straightforward to implement.
These users liked the author Caribbean for the post (total 2):
SW1wargame_insomniac
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

SD67
Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 09:49
Has liked: 93 times
Been liked: 104 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SD67 »

SomeoneAh wrote: 19 Jul 2022, 22:59 It seems the reason RAF talks about that they discovered a better options when developing the Mosquito is the BAE UAV

The decision was informed by parallel analysis and capability experimentation conducted by the RAF and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl). The accumulation of analysis concluded that more beneficial capability and cost-effectiveness appears achievable through exploration of smaller, less costly, but still highly capable additive capabilities.”
Thankyou for translating MOD-speak into English I thought I was stuck in an episode of Yes Minister there

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 3608
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 132 times
Been liked: 318 times
United Kingdom

Re: Project Mosquito / Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (LANCA)

Post by SW1 »


Post Reply