UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Contains threads on equipment developed by the UK defence and aerospace industry, but not in service with the British Armed Forces.
jonas
Member
Posts: 990
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time
United Kingdom

UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by jonas »

Edit by The Armchair Soldier:

This thread will now be used for news and general discussion related to the UK defence and aerospace industry. Credit to SKB for the original topic idea.
________________________________________

Original post by Jonas:

Government to boost R&D
https://www.defenceonline.co.uk/2020/07 ... uperpower/

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

An excellent initiative, has also clear signs of "a torpedo is about to hit" - call all hands to pumps

"aiming to maintain a close relationship with European partners by seeking to agree a fair and balanced deal for participation in EU R&D schemes. If the UK does not associate with programmes such as the EU’s research programme, Horizon Europe, the government will commit to meeting any funding shortfalls and putting in place alternative schemes to support vital UK research"

and so many have already been observed 'packing up' that
"The global talent scheme will also be opened up to EU citizens which will allow highly-skilled scientists and researchers to come to the UK without needing a job offer."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

albedo
Member
Posts: 152
Joined: 27 Jun 2017, 21:44
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by albedo »

This sort of thing 'New plans to cement the UK as the world’s leading research and science superpower' is just so much cr*p though - it's utterly dispiriting to read. The UK never has been and never will be 'the world’s leading research and science superpower' (at least certainly not for the past 100 years or so). Unless this country gets real about it's likely place in the world and stops this crazy exceptionalism and jingoism in the coming decades then these initiatives are just so much hot air.

There are any number of countries (China, US, Japan, South Korea, Germany, France even, etc, the list goes on) all vying to be 'the world’s leading research and science superpower' and arguably much better placed to do so than the UK. China and the US have got the sheer economic strength to do so; Japan, S Korea, Germany are also strong economically but have the engineering pedigree and infrastructure plus a strong educational system turning out properly qualified job applicants.

In case you get the wrong idea, I'm absolutely not against these new initiatives - they're probably the only liferaft we have as a country. But please let's get real about their likely very limited success.

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2553
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 2 times
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by dmereifield »

albedo wrote:
This sort of thing 'New plans to cement the UK as the world’s leading research and science superpower' is just so much cr*p though - it's utterly dispiriting to read. The UK never has been and never will be 'the world’s leading research and science superpower' (at least certainly not for the past 100 years or so). Unless this country gets real about it's likely place in the world and stops this crazy exceptionalism and jingoism in the coming decades then these initiatives are just so much hot air.

There are any number of countries (China, US, Japan, South Korea, Germany, France even, etc, the list goes on) all vying to be 'the world’s leading research and science superpower' and arguably much better placed to do so than the UK. China and the US have got the sheer economic strength to do so; Japan, S Korea, Germany are also strong economically but have the engineering pedigree and infrastructure plus a strong educational system turning out properly qualified job applicants.

In case you get the wrong idea, I'm absolutely not against these new initiatives - they're probably the only liferaft we have as a country. But please let's get real about their likely very limited success.
You're far too pessimistic. The UK already is a "science super power" (whatever that is), in the same bracket as those countries you mentioned - behind some of them, and ahead of others, in the list (depending on your definition and metrics used)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Well R&D is the thing that makes the difference and we have many top Unis (what is the percentage of UK nationals in the faculties that count, I might ask), but
- as there is no such definition (usable for metrics) for what constitutes a ' scientist'

and, taking the old truth that one needs to be able to follow up, to get any results realised
= implementation

therefore, I picked this one, as a proxy when talking about " behind some of them, and ahead of others, in the list" (depending on your definition and metrics used)
- as engineers in the end are the ones that make things happen

So a 'policy' question:
- as we are funding our Unis through the intake of foreign students
- which then makes it possible for many of those Unis to stay in the 'top league" for R - and some of them even have incubators for the &D

are we not, effectively, giving much away for free (of the output at the top), just to keep the whole pyramid going ?
- having been delinquent at the lower levels (primary; secondary) of education, and its funding, already
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 6405
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Has liked: 10 times
Been liked: 39 times
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by Lord Jim »

We have always been good if not great at research, but we have also be bad or worse at Development and more importantly progressing things to a level that the UK actually benefits and not some other country who is will to invest be it at a Governmental level or Industry.

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2358
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 5 times
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by Caribbean »

albedo wrote:The UK never has been and never will be 'the world’s leading research and science superpower'
Sometime in the 1970s, the Japanese Government commissioned a report into why the Japanese seemed poor at innovation. They started by categorising all the major inventions of the last few hundred years. Then they excluded everything before 1900 as "the British invented everything of note". Then they looked at all inventions since 1900 to date (as I say somewhere in the 70's) and were somewhat surprised that it was still approximately 90% down to the British.

Of course, what you categorise as a "major invention" affects those figures, but there is still an overwhelming case for being considered a "world leading R & D superpower".

We may have tailed off a bit since then in terms of share (primarily because averyone else has started pulling their finger out - the US in particular has transitioned from a largely agrarian society to a manufacturing and then to a post-industrial research powerhouse), but not in terms of effort. For some reason, everyone seems to think no research happens in the UK, just like they think that "the UK doesn't manufacture anything". We actually manufacture vastly more than we did at the end of WW2 (by 100-200%), but services and finance have grown far more, so manufacturing has shrunk in terms of its contribution to GDP. Likewise, our research effort has grown hugely, but not as fast as the general economy.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The thought was moving faster the fingers on the keyboard, so I left the 'evidence' out :oops: from " picked this one, as a proxy when talking about " behind some of them, and ahead of others, in the list" (depending on your definition and metrics used)
- as engineers in the end are the ones that make things happen"
Top 10 Countries That Produce The Most Engineers - Embibe ...
[Search domain http://www.embibe.com/exams/top-10-coun ... engineers/] https://www.embibe.com/exams/top-10-cou ... engineers/
Engineers play an imperative role by the discoveries of science to improve the quality of life. Let's have a look on top 10 countries that produce the most engineers.
- looks like the URL needs copy-pasting rather than just simple clicking on it, to work
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2553
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 2 times
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by dmereifield »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:The thought was moving faster the fingers on the keyboard, so I left the 'evidence' out :oops: from " picked this one, as a proxy when talking about " behind some of them, and ahead of others, in the list" (depending on your definition and metrics used)
- as engineers in the end are the ones that make things happen"
Top 10 Countries That Produce The Most Engineers - Embibe ...
[Search domain http://www.embibe.com/exams/top-10-coun ... engineers/] https://www.embibe.com/exams/top-10-cou ... engineers/
Engineers play an imperative role by the discoveries of science to improve the quality of life. Let's have a look on top 10 countries that produce the most engineers.
- looks like the URL needs copy-pasting rather than just simple clicking on it, to work
Clearly we must put more emphasis on training engineers, but it's not just about the numbers you train, but being able to attract engineers trained elsewhere, too

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Government to boost R&D

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Well, we've tried it out with doctors and nurses (even carers)

The opening salvo (the doc link) for this thread gave a free pass to PhDs (to stay) and 'recognised' scientists to come.

An engineer who has just graduated will be useless before some learning on the job. I wonder where we would set the bar, in the first place, and - thinking of defence-related industries - what would be the chances for those individuals of getting security clearance at any meaningful level?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

jonas
Member
Posts: 990
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time
United Kingdom

UK invests £400m in OneWeb

Post by jonas »


User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: UK invests £400m in OneWeb

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

While this is v exciting news, can we please put it back to the thread that was already running?

I will then expand on "Airbus in the UK welcomed the outcome of the auction." and the angles in that which are good for national interest [too ;) ].
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

jonas
Member
Posts: 990
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time
United Kingdom

Lincad doubles capacity

Post by jonas »


bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 2361
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 3 times
United Kingdom

Re: Lincad doubles capacity

Post by bobp »

With reliance on more UK manufacture in the future, this company looks to have a good future especially with the growth in electric cars.

jonas
Member
Posts: 990
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by jonas »

Skynet 6A contract :-



Home
Defence and armed forces

News story
UK defence teams up with world leading UK space company to secure next generation of military communications

A new military communications satellite is set to keep troops safe across the globe for decades to come, thanks to a £500 million contract confirmed today by Defence Secretary Ben Wallace.
Published 19 July 2020

From:
Ministry of Defence, Amanda Solloway MP, and The Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP

Skynet 6A will guarantee our Armed Forces fast, secure and reliable communications


Built by Airbus Defence and Space, SKYNET 6A will soar among the stars, guaranteeing our Armed Forces fast, secure and reliable communications from thousands of miles above, wherever they are deployed.

SKYNET 6A will use some of the most advanced technology available, including a higher radio frequency spectrum and the latest in digital processing to provide more capacity, speed and greater versatility than its predecessor system the SKYNET 5 constellation.

The £500 million boost is the latest investment in the technological safeguards that help our Armed Forces deter threats from anywhere in the world, including Russia and China. This will secure UK leadership in defensive space and cyber operations for generations to come.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

To safeguard our military on operations around the world we need to ensure that we protect their communications on land, sea or in air. The newest contested frontier is space and so we need to provide resilience and better communications for our forces. SKYNET 6A is one of many solutions we shall be investing in over the next decade. This Government recognises the urgent need to defend and promote space capabilities.

This new satellite will continue to be controlled from the UK’s existing ground stations, allowing for greater flexibility and security.

Effective and secure satellite communications are essential to support troops on the ground, and with the development of SKYNET 6A our personnel can continue to rely on space for secure communications until 2040 and beyond.

Built and assembled in the UK, the SKYNET 6A contract will sustain 550 highly skilled jobs, making good on the Government’s commitment to drive employment across the UK. Airbus Defence & Space is the UK arm of the Airbus firm. Completing the work in the UK will ensure SKYNET 6A remains a sovereign capability with the very best technology the private sector has to offer.

Science Minister Amanda Solloway said:

Space technology plays an important role in supporting our military and keeping us safe, while also boosting the UK’s economy and enabling world-leading science and research.

With this major investment in Skynet 6A, the development of the National Satellite Test Facility and the launch of a dedicated innovation programme, we are setting a bold new ambition for the UK in space.

The contract covers all aspects of the satellite’s development. From the design, manufacture, and assembly stages, to integration, testing and finally the launch, SKYNET 6A will revolutionise the way defence is able to communicate.

SKYNET 6A is a modern design that exploits the latest technologies available from Airbus Defence and Space. The satellite will use the new Airbus Eurostar Neo telecommunications satellite platform coupled with electric orbit raising propulsion and station keeping systems.

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 2814
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 14 times
Been liked: 35 times
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by SW1 »

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ts-bizjets

In particular though, Patrick claimed that the Global jets offer “unrivaled size, weight, power, and cooling capacity.” For instance, the Global 5000/5500 series provides up to eight operator workstations, up to 200 KvA of baseline electrical power, and a payload of 7,139 pounds. The largest of the breed, the Global 7500, can accommodate at least 10 operators, plus four seats at the rear for crew rest, VIP transport, or briefings. According to Patrick, the spacious cabins offer “a low-fatigue environment.” That is significant, because the larger Bombardier jets offer an endurance of 18 hours.

To date, the 6000/6500 series has proved the most popular for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions, with “hundreds of thousands of hours flown,” according to Patrick. The lead customer appears to be the UK Royal Air Force, which has flown its five Sentinel R.1 aircraft on multiple operations since 2008. Saab recently delivered the first of three 6000s converted for Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) missions to the UAE Air Force.

Bombardier allows integrators like Saab considerable flexibility in customization. Patrick identified four available options. In the “all-inclusive” Option A, the company performs all the design, integration, test, and certification, and modifies the aircraft. In Option B, the customer does the modification. In Option C, Bombardier does the design, but the customer does everything else. In Option D, Bombardier provides only licensed design data and engineering support.

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 6329
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United States of America

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

SW1 wrote:https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ts-bizjets

In particular though, Patrick claimed that the Global jets offer “unrivaled size, weight, power, and cooling capacity.” For instance, the Global 5000/5500 series provides up to eight operator workstations, up to 200 KvA of baseline electrical power, and a payload of 7,139 pounds. The largest of the breed, the Global 7500, can accommodate at least 10 operators, plus four seats at the rear for crew rest, VIP transport, or briefings. According to Patrick, the spacious cabins offer “a low-fatigue environment.” That is significant, because the larger Bombardier jets offer an endurance of 18 hours.

To date, the 6000/6500 series has proved the most popular for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions, with “hundreds of thousands of hours flown,” according to Patrick. The lead customer appears to be the UK Royal Air Force, which has flown its five Sentinel R.1 aircraft on multiple operations since 2008. Saab recently delivered the first of three 6000s converted for Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) missions to the UAE Air Force.

Bombardier allows integrators like Saab considerable flexibility in customization. Patrick identified four available options. In the “all-inclusive” Option A, the company performs all the design, integration, test, and certification, and modifies the aircraft. In Option B, the customer does the modification. In Option C, Bombardier does the design, but the customer does everything else. In Option D, Bombardier provides only licensed design data and engineering support.
Are these made in the UK?

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 2814
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Has liked: 14 times
Been liked: 35 times
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Ron5 wrote:
SW1 wrote:https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ts-bizjets

In particular though, Patrick claimed that the Global jets offer “unrivaled size, weight, power, and cooling capacity.” For instance, the Global 5000/5500 series provides up to eight operator workstations, up to 200 KvA of baseline electrical power, and a payload of 7,139 pounds. The largest of the breed, the Global 7500, can accommodate at least 10 operators, plus four seats at the rear for crew rest, VIP transport, or briefings. According to Patrick, the spacious cabins offer “a low-fatigue environment.” That is significant, because the larger Bombardier jets offer an endurance of 18 hours.

To date, the 6000/6500 series has proved the most popular for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions, with “hundreds of thousands of hours flown,” according to Patrick. The lead customer appears to be the UK Royal Air Force, which has flown its five Sentinel R.1 aircraft on multiple operations since 2008. Saab recently delivered the first of three 6000s converted for Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) missions to the UAE Air Force.

Bombardier allows integrators like Saab considerable flexibility in customization. Patrick identified four available options. In the “all-inclusive” Option A, the company performs all the design, integration, test, and certification, and modifies the aircraft. In Option B, the customer does the modification. In Option C, Bombardier does the design, but the customer does everything else. In Option D, Bombardier provides only licensed design data and engineering support.
Are these made in the UK?

Depending on which model there is fuselage, nacelle, engine and tail components designed and built at Bombardier aero Belfast and rolls Royce .

seaspear
Senior Member
Posts: 1758
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:16
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Australia

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by seaspear »

With regards to the current absence of an anti-satellite weapons treaty, apart from the use of the deployment of weapons of mass destruction , does with the recent publicized accusation of Russia testing an anti-satellite weapon in space suggest that the U.K consider their development and deployment or engage in treaty development of such ?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

PESCO and EDF are veering towards more openness; November will reveal the outcomes:
" it is important those projects are allowed as full as possible [the] involvement of non-EU allies. Because the reality is indeed that those non-EU allies have strong connections with the European defense market, with the European defense industry,”[EU Defence Proc Lead] Grand added.

German officials have been optimistic about reaching a compromise since they took on the third-country challenge this summer. That is because their proposal piggybacks on a paper by the previous, Finnish-run presidency that was only narrowly rejected last year. A few modifications would be enough to clinch a deal.

According to a German MoD spokesman, officials aim to present a workable solution to defense ministers at an EU foreign affairs council meeting slated for Nov. 20."
- could only be good news for UK companies (including those that are subs of US defence giants)

Quote part from Sebastian Sprenger, associate editor for Europe at Defense News
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
xav
Senior Member
Posts: 1533
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 22:48
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 3 times

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by xav »

UK Naval Industry Eyes Technology Transfer For South Korea’s LPX-II Project
According to the Korea Herald newspaper, the UK Government and Babcock International, which led the Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier design process, « are said to be actively engaging with their South Korean counterparts ». Babcock would be offering technology transfer and technical skills in regard to short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft carrier design and F-35B fighter jet integration and operation. Babcock is currently involved in the ROK Navy’s KSS-III large attack submarine program.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... i-project/

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Funny that when we only just heard that B has never designed a warship, not to mention having built one:
" Babcock would be offering technology transfer and technical skills in regard to short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft carrier design and F-35B fighter jet integration and operation. Babcock is currently involved in the ROK Navy’s KSS-III large attack submarine program."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 6405
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Has liked: 10 times
Been liked: 39 times
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Funny that when we only just heard that B has never designed a warship, not to mention having built one:
" Babcock would be offering technology transfer and technical skills in regard to short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft carrier design and F-35B fighter jet integration and operation. Babcock is currently involved in the ROK Navy’s KSS-III large attack submarine program."
That last part is very interesting.

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 6329
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United States of America

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Funny that when we only just heard that B has never designed a warship, not to mention having built one:
" Babcock would be offering technology transfer and technical skills in regard to short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft carrier design and F-35B fighter jet integration and operation. Babcock is currently involved in the ROK Navy’s KSS-III large attack submarine program."

It's based on an inaccuracy that Babcock's lead the QE design. They most definitely did not. They don't have any QE design expertise or technology to transfer.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

They don't have any QE design expertise or technology to transfer.
... then they have good salesmen :D
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Post Reply