AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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TheLoneRanger
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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by TheLoneRanger »

Defiance wrote:Sounds a bit too good to be true. You do have to wonder how much rigour is behind their design if they can make these sorts of claims this early in the lifecycle.
The rigour comes form their development processes and how they will model the development lifecycle as building blocks versus the traditional approach of treating each product as a bespoke product with its own replicated unique lifecycle for development and treating it product as a unique "work of art" with all of the associated costs.

AERALIS is predicating their approach on the greater use of automation of design based on rule based modelling, automation of testing and modular manufacturing techniques and modular certification lifecycles and "standardised" interfaces.

Aerospace is going "agile" and that the approach that AERALIS is taking - it is a mind shift for a lot of people - but if you have worked in software for any time, you would be familiar with the concept. I am excited by the approach that AERALIS is taking and i have my fingers crossed for them.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by Defiance »

TheLoneRanger wrote:The rigour comes form their development processes and how they will model the development lifecycle as building blocks versus the traditional approach of treating each product as a bespoke product with its own replicated unique lifecycle for development.

It is predicated on the greater use of automation of design based on rule based modelling, automation of testing and modular building techniques.

Sounds like a bunch of PR rubbish to me. Aeralis has between 11-50 employees - if you assume they have the usual functions like business development, commerical groups, HR etc they probably have only a handful of actual engineers doing any work. There are dozens of specialities around aircraft design.

Nowhere near enough to have confidence in nearly all of the design possibilities they espouse.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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Defiance wrote:
TheLoneRanger wrote:The rigour comes form their development processes and how they will model the development lifecycle as building blocks versus the traditional approach of treating each product as a bespoke product with its own replicated unique lifecycle for development.

It is predicated on the greater use of automation of design based on rule based modelling, automation of testing and modular building techniques.

Sounds like a bunch of PR rubbish to me. Aeralis has between 11-50 employees - if you assume they have the usual functions like business development, commerical groups, HR etc they probably have only a handful of actual engineers doing any work. There are dozens of specialities around aircraft design.

Nowhere near enough to have confidence in nearly all of the design possibilities they espouse.
It comes down to getting the funding to prove their new approach - that is different of course different to where they are now. That is where investors will come in with the risk of funding AERALIS versus the reward if their approach pays off.

Look at Tesla - new upstart from nothing to where they are now - they predicated their organisation on a different approach and it seems to working fairly well for them. They needed money and funding to get where they are now.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by Defiance »

TheLoneRanger wrote:It comes down to getting the funding to prove their new approach - that is different of course different to where they are now. That is where investors will come in with the risk of funding AERALIS versus the reward if their approach pays off.

Look at Tesla - new upstart from nothing to where they are now - they predicated their organisation on a different approach and it seems to working fairly well for them. They needed money and funding to get where they are now.
Admirable sentiment but you can't just point at Tesla and say the approach works. History is littered with companies who tried something different and went bust. It's all about the execution of the approach which Aeralis has yet to demonstrate they are capable of doing above and beyond the wider industry.

Right now we've seen a lot of material from their business people, I suspect most here are well aware of how business people will over-promise and under-deliver. When they start making technological progress then I might be a bit more confident but even that isn't a guarantee (look at REL).

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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UK aerospace start-up Aeralis has received a boost in its efforts to develop a new jet training aircraft after signing an investment agreement with an unnamed Middle Eastern sovereign wealth fund.

Image

Announcing the agreement on September 16 at the DSEI exhibition and conference in London, UK, the company revealed the initial investment totalled £10.5m (US$14.4m), which will support the design, development and first flight of its Advanced Jet Trainer platform.
https://www.airinternational.com/articl ... alis-start

Still small potatoes (presumably small, modular agile potatoes.....) However Aeralis seem to getting somewhere at least.

The graveyard of "low cost, light combat/trainer aircraft" startups is pretty well populated....

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by Ron5 »

10 mill to design and develop through to first flight. Should give them Tempest :D

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by Jensy »

Mystery 'Mid-East investment fund' is Qatari...


UK aerospace start-up Aeralis has received a boost in its efforts to develop a new jet training aircraft after signing an investment agreement with an unnamed Middle Eastern sovereign wealth fund.
Image
Announcing the agreement on September 16 at the DSEI exhibition and conference in London, UK, the company revealed the initial investment totalled £10.5m (US$14.4m), which will support the design, development and first flight of its Advanced Jet Trainer platform.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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Must be a tax write off :lol:

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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https://www.joint-forces.com/defence-eq ... co-support

Press Release, Bristol, 11 April 2022: Pioneering military aerospace company AERALIS has today announced that it has received significant further investment from the Royal Air Force’s Rapid Capabilities Office (RCO) in line with the wider PYRAMID programme.

In February of 2021 AERALIS agreed a three-year contract with the Royal Air Force’s RCO for research and development into a new modular approach to the design and development of future aircraft. With the first phase successfully completed, AERALIS is delighted to announce Phase 2 of the programme that will provide a route to exploit the potential of PYRAMID, the Ministry of Defence’s open mission system architecture.
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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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Excellent progress - steady and sure footed. I am so looking forward to AERALIS being a success and the start of UK original weapon systems. We will be upping our defence spending and hoping that UK companies pickup most of that to build industrial capability in the UK.

Market efficiency has to sit alongside local military capability - and i hope that lesson has been learnt from what is happenning in Ukraine right now.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by Jensy »

Been a busy week or so for Aeralis

Full press release for the above: https://aeralis.com/2022/04/11/aeralis- ... es-office/

Construction of two full scale replicas (which were exhibited in Doha at DIMDEX 2022): https://aeralis.com/2022/03/21/emir-of- ... mdex-2022/



Some full-resolution versions of those snazzy new infographics:

Image

Image

Of note are:

- Specific reference to active modularity and the switching of modules with the "Common Core Fuselage", rather being assigned roles at manufacturing level

- The reappearance of "uncrewed" variants, with roles including "Loyal Wingman, Tanker or ISTAR"

- First appearance (at least to my eyes) of what appears to be a folding wing variant, outfitted with a refuelling pod (bottom right on second infographic).


Even More recently: In yesterday's Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... t-trainer/
Aeralis, the British-designed jet fighter that could replace the RAF’s ageing fleet of Hawk trainers, has won the backing of Rolls-Royce and Martin Baker as it gears up to make a demonstrator version.

The company is looking to capitalise on tight defence budgets and ageing fleets of trainer aircraft to sell adaptable jets that can be upgraded and modified.

Image

The programme recently won investment from the Royal Air Force’s Rapid Capabilities Office to test its system to allow electronic components to be swapped in and out and upgraded without the aircraft needing a costly recertification by regulators.

Aeralis has estimated there is a market for up to 5,500 of its jets, which could be worth £150bn.

Rolls-Royce has agreed to supply its Adour jet engines for the plane, while Martin Baker will provide ejector seats.

It will also work with Hamble Aerostructures, which was a supplier to BAE Systems for the Hawk and before that worked on the 1960s-era Folland Gnat jet trainer.
Still a long way to go. However I daresay, as a project, it has gone further than many might have speculated.
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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by SW1 »

Jensy wrote: 19 Apr 2022, 16:45 Been a busy week or so for Aeralis

Full press release for the above: https://aeralis.com/2022/04/11/aeralis- ... es-office/

Construction of two full scale replicas (which were exhibited in Doha at DIMDEX 2022): https://aeralis.com/2022/03/21/emir-of- ... mdex-2022/



Some full-resolution versions of those snazzy new infographics:

Image

Image

Of note are:

- Specific reference to active modularity and the switching of modules with the "Common Core Fuselage", rather being assigned roles at manufacturing level

- The reappearance of "uncrewed" variants, with roles including "Loyal Wingman, Tanker or ISTAR"

- First appearance (at least to my eyes) of what appears to be a folding wing variant, outfitted with a refuelling pod (bottom right on second infographic).


Even More recently: In yesterday's Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... t-trainer/
Aeralis, the British-designed jet fighter that could replace the RAF’s ageing fleet of Hawk trainers, has won the backing of Rolls-Royce and Martin Baker as it gears up to make a demonstrator version.

The company is looking to capitalise on tight defence budgets and ageing fleets of trainer aircraft to sell adaptable jets that can be upgraded and modified.

Image

The programme recently won investment from the Royal Air Force’s Rapid Capabilities Office to test its system to allow electronic components to be swapped in and out and upgraded without the aircraft needing a costly recertification by regulators.

Aeralis has estimated there is a market for up to 5,500 of its jets, which could be worth £150bn.

Rolls-Royce has agreed to supply its Adour jet engines for the plane, while Martin Baker will provide ejector seats.

It will also work with Hamble Aerostructures, which was a supplier to BAE Systems for the Hawk and before that worked on the 1960s-era Folland Gnat jet trainer.
Still a long way to go. However I daresay, as a project, it has gone further than many might have speculated.
Are you sure that’s a folding wing, just looks like a set of winglets to me?

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by SKB »

They're modular wings, not folding wings. They said you can swap in/out low speed straight wings or faster speed swept back wings. One plane that does multiple roles.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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At what point have they "won backing" from RR and MB? They've just agreed to provide OTS seats and engines...

I like the idea. But how you manage the certification and baseline of such an aircraft with multiple configurations is something for MOD and the MAA to address, not industry. And I have little faith in them.

Their digital-twin is something that is talked about throughout industry at the moment. It's a good engineering practice, but much like the CAD hype of 20 years ago, there'll always be a need for physical test.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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If “won” backing isn’t just pr talk it would mean at the point both Martin baker and RR commit engineering resource for the integration and certification of the products into the design.

At this point I would be looking at certification through caa/easa to civil type certification would be easier specifically if there looking at exports and the military aren’t committing to an order at present.

If it’s factory configuration options it’s not that different to what goes on with airliners you get a number of different fuselage length, fuel tank, engine and wing options on a a320 series airliner.
You certify the different configurations as add ons to the main type certification.


In Field options maybe for “later”.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

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SW1 wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 13:11 Are you sure that’s a folding wing, just looks like a set of winglets to me?
Sure? Not in the slightest.

However I'm pretty certain it's showing a different, and possibly larger, wing than those seen before.

To my eyes it has a bend or fold in it though that could well be a shadow. An aircraft of the same configuration is shown in the previous graphic (blended winglets, refueling pod, conventional tail etc.) seemingly with a greater span than the others.

In the past Aeralis have stated that they had three further wing shapes under design in addition to the basic and advanced subsonic shapes already proposed (and posted upthread).

Image
RunningStrong wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 15:07 At what point have they "won backing" from RR and MB? They've just agreed to provide OTS seats and engines...
It's the Telegraph. Not the paper it was, which isn't exactly saying much.... Would have been happier to have posted it from nearly any other source. Even then it's probably lifted directly from an approved press release.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by RunningStrong »

Jensy wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 18:04 It's the Telegraph. Not the paper it was, which isn't exactly saying much.... Would have been happier to have posted it from nearly any other source. Even then it's probably lifted directly from an approved press release.
I'm pretty sure it's the AERALIS spin machine. Their team seems to have more BD and Marketing people than engineers.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by SW1 »

Jensy wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 18:04
SW1 wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 13:11 Are you sure that’s a folding wing, just looks like a set of winglets to me?
Sure? Not in the slightest.

However I'm pretty certain it's showing a different, and possibly larger, wing than those seen before.

To my eyes it has a bend or fold in it though that could well be a shadow. An aircraft of the same configuration is shown in the previous graphic (blended winglets, refueling pod, conventional tail etc.) seemingly with a greater span than the others.

In the past Aeralis have stated that they had three further wing shapes under design in addition to the basic and advanced subsonic shapes already proposed (and posted upthread).

Image
RunningStrong wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 15:07 At what point have they "won backing" from RR and MB? They've just agreed to provide OTS seats and engines...
It's the Telegraph. Not the paper it was, which isn't exactly saying much.... Would have been happier to have posted it from nearly any other source. Even then it's probably lifted directly from an approved press release.
Might be a higher aspect ratio wing but to me just looks like a shadow where the “interchangeable” outbid wing attaches to the inbd centre wing/fuse structure.

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Re: AERALIS - Modular Jet Trainer

Post by Jensy »

SW1 wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 20:01 Might be a higher aspect ratio wing but to me just looks like a shadow where the “interchangeable” outbid wing attaches to the inbd centre wing/fuse structure.
Looking at it today, I think you might be right.

Seems to match the physical mock-up from DSEI:

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