Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

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abc123
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by abc123 »

Tempest414 wrote:the fact that Bother is on the NHS front line and mother is dying (Not from covid-19) and I can't get to her due to this shit.
I'm sorry to hear that. :cry:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Repulse
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

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”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

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The biz-as-usual write-up above has this
"RN ships remain on a variety of operations and tasks, from HMS FORTH down in the Falklands, to the Gulf where Frigates and MCMVs remain on task and busy supporting British shipping.

In the West Indies the newly arrived HMS MEDWAY "
so the backfilling with older River B1s seems to have an effect
- has anyone read about their days at sea? Just one crew per reactivated ship, or the same arrangements as for other Rivers copied?

Where's HMS Clyde btw - still serving?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Tempest414
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by Tempest414 »

The B1's are using RN(R) to keep crew numbers and days at sea up HMS Clyde is laid up / paid off in Portsmouth and 2 more B2's are working up to long term forward deployment so soon we will see 7 OPVs active

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

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Tempest414 wrote:HMS Clyde is laid up / paid off in Portsmouth
Hats off for the hardworking ship
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Repulse
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:HMS Clyde is laid up / paid off in Portsmouth
Hats off for the hardworking ship
HMS Clyde should be kept for U.K. EEZ / Fisheries patrolling, freeing up another B2 for duties further afield to alleviate the issues with FF/DD availability.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Tempest414
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by Tempest414 »

Maybe the RN should have made HMS Clyde the Nav training ship also capable of some helicopter training and kept the 3 B1's for home waters duties

dmereifield
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by dmereifield »

abc123 wrote:My view, maybe:
PoW being mothballed and used like Albion/Bulwark.
One Bay retired or sold.
T23 GP retired early.
One T45 not being reengined and mothballed.
Another Hunt/Sandown being retired.
In order
PoW - nope
Bay - maybe, but saves so little, so why bother? Nope
T23 GP - maybe
T45 - nope
Hunt/Sandown - maybe

abc123
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by abc123 »

dmereifield wrote:
abc123 wrote:My view, maybe:
PoW being mothballed and used like Albion/Bulwark.
One Bay retired or sold.
T23 GP retired early.
One T45 not being reengined and mothballed.
Another Hunt/Sandown being retired.
In order
PoW - nope
Bay - maybe, but saves so little, so why bother? Nope
T23 GP - maybe
T45 - nope
Hunt/Sandown - maybe
I never said it would be logical, do you know the joke "Why there are sentries around the barracks? So that the logic can't get inside the barracks!"
:lol:

But it would somewhat reduce operational costs and solve manning problems.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Tempest414
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by Tempest414 »

If we were to sell a LPD and 2 x type 23 GP maybe given the need to keep people working we could look to sell them cheap as long as the refits are paid for by the new owner's and done in UK yards

SW1
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by SW1 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Repulse wrote:
more Astute+s with VLS capable of firing tactical nukes
would think that the danger of a launch being interpreted as a (false) positive, of it actually carrying a nuke, might lead to escalation... not necessarily by the targeted party, but its ally/ backer.

https://www.janes.com/article/95539/us- ... clear-slcm

The US Department of Defense (DoD) has set out further details of the strategic requirement, deterrence benefits, and initial development processes for a new nuclear-armed sea-launched cruise missile (SLCM-N).

In a March 2020 Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy white paper on the SLCM-N, the DoD stated, “Developing SLCM-N is an urgent task and initial steps in the acquisition process are under way.”

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Yep, INF is dead: intent to reinforce its non-strategic nuclear deterrence
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by SW1 »

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/com ... -troubles/

The Defense Department was caught flatfooted in 2013 because of its stubborn refusal to plan for sequestration. It muddled through the across-the-board cuts imposed by sequestration that year by furloughing civilian employees, canceling training and exercises, and deferring maintenance on equipment and facilities. To make matters worse, many of these actions did not save money in the long run; they merely deferred expenses and made long-term costs higher than they would have been otherwise.

A budgetary rule of thumb is that if you are going to reduce force structure (and associated end strength), the sooner you make the cuts, the more you will save and the less you will have to cut. If you wait to make cuts until the budgetary rug has been pulled out from under you, the cuts will be deeper and more painful.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SW1 wrote:plan for sequestration
While your thinking on the time profile is sound, your "English"
does not sound right: sequestration is about grabbing assets... so you are not writing from SW!, are you? We could have a coffee, after all of this, if you were :D
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by SW1 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
SW1 wrote:plan for sequestration
While your thinking on the time profile is sound, your "English"
does not sound right: sequestration is about grabbing assets... so you are not writing from SW!, are you? We could have a coffee, after all of this, if you were :D
The passage is a lift from the text of the article hence the Americanism. I thought it interesting because it’s a warning about exactly what happened going into sdsr2010. If the only answer you have is we want more money it will be a repeat. You make the decisions before your made too so it becomes a more logical and coherent plan.

On the that your right quite a bit north of SW1!.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Impact on RN from COVID-19 and associated economic downturn

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Apologies; I did not factor the Americanisms in

And yes, drifting does not guarantee a coherent plan. Indeed, the first thing Mattis set out to get right was getting readiness back on track (spare parts & maintenance, things that go boom, included; correcting the hollowing out at the micro-level, because those sorts of things had been the easiest to cut. Get from today to tomorrow, and may be in more distant future the 'machine' would get 'oiled' again, to be ready for use).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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