The future form of the Army

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: Does this mean at least one of the Heavy BCTs and the Deep Fires BCT being either prepositioned or deployed in Germany reversing the post 2010 SDSR plan? Another could be that as training with Allies is far more important that national training, could BATUS be closed and the focus move to Germany, Poland and Norway?
Lord Jim wrote:the Army states that they are looking at increasing the lethality of the Boxer but that it will not be used a an IFV is very confusing as an example.
Preposition, forward deploy or rotate? Or do all of them in combination. The expanse of training areas in Poland comes close to BATUS but they are more hi-fidelity as for the terrain... and of course we do train in Norway (I'm not sure I have seen many/any lessons learnt from the occasion when a 'surrogate' Strike Bde was added to do a 'long march' to the scene?).
Lord Jim wrote: disregard for the common ideology of preparing for the worst cast senario, and instead preparing for the threat we can afford to face.
Pivot to the Indo-Pacific, more to the 'Indo' than the Pacific - as per the General addressing the Atlantic Council. And that of course includes the wider Gulf as well
- there's likely to be/ to have been :idea: some behind the scenes 'horse trading' so that American commitment to Europe is maintained (in force levels) and they can draw down in AFRICOM, and in the longer run - meaning if Iran becomes more docile - in the Fleet that is there for the Gulf 'contingencies'. Indeed there has been talk of whether the separate 'fleet number' for that ocean should be deleted
... so it's all in the mix (may I add that there is a moribund 'geopolitics' thread here, would have been useful for discussing the the big picture. Ie. geostrategy - I believe we 'just' published our own, albeit under a different ;) name)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by SW1 »

I thought it a very interesting talk, i think he highlights how he expects the army to fight going fwd while the strike brigade name may have gone it’s clear that is how he envisages the army operating.

Also makes clear how he see the army interaction with allies globally going and that’s mainly thru the new ranger unit and that future competition/confrontation with russia/China will be mainly via proxy actors which does indeed hark back to days of the Cold War

Preposition of equipment in Europe May also explain why things have gone heavier

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: The future form of the Army

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SW1 wrote:it’s clear that is how he envisages the army operating.
Dispersed, capable of engaging from a distance (the 'Midway moment' coming to the army was a good parallel) and actively forward- deployed - not just to deter, but to add some backbone to local forces for keeping localised troubles from spilling over, into something bigger
-the third one sounds like 'out of area' engagements and he did refer to the first bn of the Ranger Rgmnt being a priority
- but it also applies to e.g.the Baltic states: the presence of a Nato tripwire there enables the local forced to pay much more attention to being ready to deal with the 'little green men' popping up like mushrooms after the rain (add some well targeted sabotage and misinformation to the scenario). He did not mention this aspects as it is not something that would relate to the new aspects introduced in the IR.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: The future form of the Army

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In an 11-part series of thoughts that AndyC contributed @TD in the runup to the 2015 SDSR, there was also this on the max effort
" In this planning scenario 3rd (UK) Division would form up around the three Armoured Infantry Brigades and 1st (UK) Division would be based on the Air Assault Brigade, Royal Marines Commandos and the two Adaptable Force Infantry Brigades."
which was still based on the then current divisional sledgehammer leaning.

Now, with the more dispersed BCTs ("now" is an exaggeration, of course)
2 AI bdes/ BCTs, but smaller, supported by the Recce& Deep Strike BCT (an amalgamation of Recce rgmnts from the aforementioned Heavy BCTs together with a re-formed DAG, Divisional Artillery Group) - and probably the Airmobile BCT

Where the two Infantry bdes/ Light BCTs would fall would v much depend on the circumstances:
- one to the Far North, with the remaining Cdo manoeuver units
- in that scenario heavy use of the Air Combat Bde would suit the terrain, as only the RM are kitted to tackle it without disadvantage
... and would leave the other Light BCT, the one that will first receive protected mobility wagons suited for manoeuver warfare, free to join the the units listed in the preceding para, adding a mobile reserve

So, what's changed? Not so much the force mix (kit is being modernised, but so should it be), but more so how they would be used: more dispersed, more emphasis on deep fires so as not to leave the smaller than before units exposed when engaging and more emphasis on mobility (whether protected, or by using helicopters in transit)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Tempest414
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by Tempest414 »

good to see members of 2 Para battle group being dropped in to the Baltic along with US 82nd airborne this week

Lord Jim
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by Lord Jim »

Well it is nice to see the Army still looking forward to the 2030s, it is just a shame they are forgetting what is right in front of them. Mind you these Rheinmetall UGV do look pretty capable as well as looking cool.

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Re: The future form of the Army

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Why wouldn’t you look to put some of these sensors on the supacat ATMP

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: The future form of the Army

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Kudos for marketing materials (does Rheinmetall have their own army, to be stood up for filming); not just for excellent products
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: The future form of the Army

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Lord Jim wrote:Well it is nice to see the Army still looking forward to the 2030s, it is just a shame they are forgetting what is right in front of them. Mind you these Rheinmetall UGV do look pretty capable as well as looking cool.
It’s alright, come 2030 they’ll have less money and more shiny new kit “just around the corner” so they can bin off these capabilities in favour of the next great powerpoint capability.

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Re: The future form of the Army

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Hang on I am the Resident "Glass Half Empty" person on the board at present. :D

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Re: The future form of the Army

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https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events ... perations/

Exercise Wessex Storm 2021 saw the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) Light Brigade proving their military and modern professional soldiering skills make them fit to deploy anywhere in the world as the Army’s Light Brigade at readiness.

“Exercise Wessex Storm has provided the perfect opportunity to test and develop our thinking on 21st Century Soldiering as articulated in the Integrated Review."
The soldiers were drawn from units from the UK and France including 1st Battalion the Royal Irish Regiment (1Royal Irish); the Scots Dragoon Guards; 7 Regiment Royal Logistics Corps (RLC); 33 Engineer Regiment; 32 Engineer Regiment; 4th Regiment Royal Artillery; and a contingent from Regiment de March du Tchad, a mechanised unit of the French Army, belonging to the Troupes de Marine.

The French Company operated as part of the 1 Royal Irish battlegroup, providing them with an additional company of light infantry during the exercise.

Captain Boris Beral, Officer Commanding 4RMT, Regiment Du Marche Du Tchad, said: “We learnt interesting lessons every day and that interoperability is something real. I learnt a lot about high intensity warfare on the exercise and we want to recreate its realism in our own exercises in the future.”

The exercise was complex deploying a sophisticated and comprehensive mix of artillery, ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance) logistics, equipment support, engineering and medical support, light cavalry and protected mobility infantry - all working together to win.

Throughout they were joined by Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) search assets, and military working dogs.

The Army Air Corps (AAC) provided Wildcat and Apache and the RAF provided Chinook (CH47) to support air assaults and air manoeuvres.

New and innovative capabilities such as a new forward headquarters housed in an easily transportable ISO Container, geographic intelligence (GEOINT) drones, capable of building a 3D picture of complex terrain, and the new Command Launch Unit (CLU) for the Javelin anti-tank missile, which is lighter and has extended range, were all tested and added huge capability to the Light Brigade.

Equally, with current doctrine focused around armoured forces, novel light force tactics were employed, playing to the strengths of junior leaders, deployed as small bands of soldiers to act as anti-tank hunter-killer teams.

J. Tattersall

Re: The future form of the Army

Post by J. Tattersall »

SW1 wrote: Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) Light Brigade
It'll be interesting to see which formation provides this capability on importation of Defence Command Paper and Army restructuring? Also interesting to see a French sub-unit involved on an exercise associated with JEF rather than CJEF; albeit I might be reading a bit too much into this part.

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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by SW1 »

J. Tattersall wrote:
SW1 wrote: Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) Light Brigade
It'll be interesting to see which formation provides this capability on importation of Defence Command Paper and Army restructuring? Also interesting to see a French sub-unit involved on an exercise associated with JEF rather than CJEF; albeit I might be reading a bit too much into this part.
It will, I assume it will be the two light mechanised brigade combat teams they mentioned they were forming. Guess we’ll have to wait until they publish what the army will look like.

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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by J. Tattersall »

SW1 wrote:
J. Tattersall wrote:
SW1 wrote: Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) Light Brigade
It'll be interesting to see which formation provides this capability on importation of Defence Command Paper and Army restructuring? Also interesting to see a French sub-unit involved on an exercise associated with JEF rather than CJEF; albeit I might be reading a bit too much into this part.
It will, I assume it will be the two light mechanised brigade combat teams they mentioned they were forming. Guess we’ll have to wait until they publish what the army will look like.
Indeed. Not quite sure when an announcement on detail of army reorganization is due. What will be interesting will be the rationale for the new organisation, rather than the barracks ORBAT itself, and how it's intended to be TASKORG'd.

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Re: The future form of the Army

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Re: The future form of the Army

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https://wavellroom.com/2021/09/20/the-i ... ign=buffer

This is the transcript of a speech delivered at Defence and Security Equipment International by Lieutenant General Christopher Tickell, the British Army Deputy Chief of the General Staff, on 14 September 2021.

Firstly, and as you know, Geography dictates that Russia must remain both our pacing and our proximate threat, and one which through our commitment to NATO Article V drives investment in a warfighting capability and deterrent posture designed for NATO’s eastern boundaries.

But the Russian threat manifests itself not just in invasions or incursions such as those in the Ukraine and the Crimea, but also through proxies such as the Wagner Group in Syria, Libya and sub-Saharan Africa, its information operations in Eastern Europe, and through its sales of high-end military technology to sow division in our alliances and arm our adversaries.

Secondly, the rising power of China is by far the most significant geopolitical factor in the world today. Its economy is a close second to that of the US, but poised to leap ahead by harnessing the short term gains which can be delivered by authoritarianism. China is therefore determined to expand its global influence and is increasingly forcing the UK and our allies into a direct competition for influence and prosperity opportunities in regions including Africa and the Indo-Pacific.

And thirdly, the Middle East and wider region continues to spawn a range of crises, exacerbated by residual Al-Qaida/Daesh presence, the legacy of Western interventions over the last 30 years, the Syrian civil war, and the Yemeni humanitarian disaster. Today the net beneficiary of much of this seems to be Iran.

Thus, we now have a series of increasingly assertive authoritarian states and other actors, less deterred by Western conventional superiority and seeking their own independent spheres of influence separate and distinct from a US-backed global order.

And I don’t need to remind you that our adversaries will have watched the recent events that took place in Afghanistan and come to their own conclusions which, I strongly suspect, will reinforce the challenges that I have laid out.

Fighting Divisions

So we must modernise our close-combat capability which has suffered from under-investment – whilst also recognising the need to privilege the Deep Battle – in order to make the close battle as anti-climactic as possible. We must generate additional capabilities to compete in the grey-zone. And we must transform our ability to fight and contribute to a multi-domain battle.

So within our fighting divisions, our Armoured Brigade Combat Teams will operate the new Challenger 3 Main Battle Tank, medium armour and reconnaissance in AJAX and mechanised infantry mounted in BOXER, and will be complemented by the full range of enablers and MDI capabilities, integrated to the lowest appropriate level.

A signature part of our new Army is the Deep Recce Strike Brigade Combat Team, based on AJAX and deep fires artillery regiments fielding modernised MLRS able to fire the US PRISM Missile, supported by EWSI and offensive cyber to ensure we have the necessary balance between kinetic and non-kinetic effect. Our 1st Aviation Attack brigade combat team will field the AH Echo and provide further punch to our deep battle.

Global hubs

In order to deliver on a more global posture, we will build on our existing training hubs around the world; Kenya, Germany, Brunei, Belize and the Oman, integrated with wider Defence and partners across government.

jedibeeftrix
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by jedibeeftrix »

Is the teaming armoured reconnaissance with deep fires artillery a continuation of the strike doctrine?

In so much as they're anticipating low density operations, so dispersed that being behind/forward enemy lines is essentially meaningless as they scoot around the threatre of war.
Thus resulting in the need need to fight for information, and then defend assets that we'd traditionally see as 'rear area'...

...or is it just more army procurment calamity as they're forced to find uses for bucketloads of Ajax that the no longer have the armoured formations to support?

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Re: The future form of the Army

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The now named Deep Recce Strike BCT is a reasonable idea, but it will need all its assets as well as those of other units providing support, forward deployed in Germany or Poland, along with sufficient HETs allocated to move the entire BCT swiftly to its forward positions. It will require regular exercises where reservists are flown out form the UK and the Brigade deploys, with little or no notice harking back to the 1980s style.

The danger as always is going to be in the execution, but even it it is another way of finding a us for the amount of Ajax variants on order, it is a far better idea than the "Strike" Brigades. Do we know how many Recce/Cavalry Regiments are going to be part of the BCT, to work with the two GMLRS Regiments? Will it have integral air defence assets or will it rely on assets being attached from the Royal Artillery Air Defence Regiments? What engineering support will the BCT have as well as the level of ISTAR support? So many questions and few answers. And of course what happens if Ajax does fail? Is the Brigade then doomed or will a replacement for Ajax be rapidly created and deployed?

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Re: The future form of the Army

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... llies.html

One of the four battalions in the 1,200-strong Ranger Regiment will focus on emerging conflicts in Eastern Europe.

Two will be sent to Africa and the fourth will deploy to the Middle East.

The 300 soldiers in each battalion have been selected from across the Army for their military skills but also their emotional intelligence as they will have to forge strong relationships with local troops.

The motto of the Rangers will be 'By All Means' which is appropriate as we will be highly versatile and diverse.'

The Rangers' cap badge, to be worn on a gunmetal grey beret, features a peregrine falcon, a bird famed for its speed, ability to operate over long distances and loyalty to its partner – the traits expected of the regiment.

Rangers will be equipped with drones – including the virtually undetectable six-inch Black Hornet – and the Multiple Launch Rocket System capable of firing 12 rockets up to 93 miles.

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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by Caribbean »

SW1 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 23:02 the Multiple Launch Rocket System capable of firing 12 rockets up to 93 miles.
Really?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Lord Jim
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by Lord Jim »

I wouldn't think having the heavy tracked M270 attached to each battalion really fitted in with their operating ethos. Not the most mobile platform and high maintenance to boot.

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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by Lord Jim »

Well this answers the question about how the new training centre in Oman will affect BATUS. The latter is being closed down, and it is possible, in my opinion the some of the assets will be transferred there form the former, though more current standard vehicles could be sent form the UK or Germany instead.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/br ... uxbndlbing
It will be interesting what else the Defence Secretary has to say latter this week regarding the restructuring of he Army and what plans are going to be in place to manage this transformation. What additional equipment is to be ordered and what programmes maybe reduced or cancelled.

jedibeeftrix
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by jedibeeftrix »

is project embankment finally about to release?

and will it be (another) dogs breakfast?


jedibeeftrix
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Re: The future form of the Army

Post by jedibeeftrix »

obliged.

now just the navy to figure out what FCF looks like...

[edit] i may have been too quick - as the doc is opaque and vague - and i'll reserve judgment on whether the army has figured out what it needs to look like. [/edit]

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