Russian Armed Forces

[Lord Jim]

Of course they are entitled to build on their own territory, but doing so when things are a little warm shall we say isn't being diplomatic, but rather the opposite, basically what we have come to accept from Russia and China.

[Qwerty]

Of course they are entitled to build on their own territory, but doing so when things are a little warm shall we say isn't being diplomatic, but rather the opposite, basically what we have come to accept from Russia and China.

In the meantime, NATO has expanded eastward, including former Soviet territories...

[abc123]

Of course they are entitled to build on their own territory, but doing so when things are a little warm shall we say isn't being diplomatic, but rather the opposite, basically what we have come to accept from Russia and China.

I think that good relations with Moscow are way more important for Finland than making fuss over some insignificant island. And for Estonia, well that island and helicopter base are really last of their problems.

[Lord Jim]

Well we could all ignore Russia and what it has done over the past decade or so, its attitude to most western countries and especially its behaviour to nations on it borders, who cares they can do what they want. We can always use diplomacy to resolve a situation, I mean everyone abides by international law and treaties don't they. Russia is never going to use military assets as part of its means to solve territorial issues is it. And Russia would certainly never use energy supplies as a means to dissuade nations form interfering in it actions would it. I mean the free press in Russia would condemn the Government there wouldn't they as would the opposition in the Russian Parliament. That is what well behaved democracies do!

[abc123]

Well we could all ignore Russia and what it has done over the past decade or so, its attitude to most western countries and especially its behaviour to nations on it borders, who cares they can do what they want. We can always use diplomacy to resolve a situation, I mean everyone abides by international law and treaties don't they. Russia is never going to use military assets as part of its means to solve territorial issues is it. And Russia would certainly never use energy supplies as a means to dissuade nations form interfering in it actions would it. I mean the free press in Russia would condemn the Government there wouldn't they as would the opposition in the Russian Parliament. That is what well behaved democracies do!

Of course that nobody said that Russia and her actions need to be ignored.
But, jumping on every tiniest noise coming from Russia and seeing Russia behind every tree ( Trump, Brexit, Catalonia etc. )- that's the opposite example.
Of course that Russian annexation of Crimea is illegal. But attack on Iraq back in 2003 was illegal too, same thing independence of Kosovo. But Saddam is dead and Kosovo independent. And yes, same thing for independence of Abkhasia, South Ossetia etc. All illegal things.
And as for using energy as a weapon, well, I don't see why some country wouldn't do that? Tanks and aircrafts or oil and gas? After all, nobody forced say Poland or Germany or Spain etc. to buy Russian gas. They can buy gas from the USA, or Qatar or Iran or... But then you have to be able and willing to pay for it. Or you should expect that Russia will sell you their gas under prices that are acceptable for you, and you will work against Russia at every step? Come on. Or Russia was the first country in history that has done that? No OPEC embargos or such things? Or, why wouldn't the West sell their aircraft engines to China? Isn't that also using their economy to achiewe some goal? What's the difference between oil/gas and aircraft engine?

And yes, lack of democracy in Russia is a bad thing, firstly for Russia itself, but I don't see that the lack of democracy is preventing say Saudi Arabia to be BFF with the USA. They can do whatever they want, hack people in their embassies and consulates, but Trump believes them that MBS didn't know anything?
Also, if there were no coloured revolutions across the Eastern Europe, maybe the average Russian would support anti-Putin forces more. But this way, how could you know that you're not supporting some CIA-MI6 asset that will sell the Russia down the drain just to become the president? And yes, do not think that Putin is 20 years in power because he does things that the big majority of Russians opposes. He's maybe a dictator, but not entirely stupid dictator.
Another thing, as much as Russia isn't democratic today, Russia in all her past, was never more democratic than now. So, you should give them some slack. Development of democracy needs time.

[Lord Jim]

My initial post was no t in the context of "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming". No it was simply pointing out that Russia had decided to build a helicopter base in the middle of the Gulf of Finland, which seems to be another case of Russia pushing the West's buttons so to speak. There is no need for such a base on the island but it does send a message to both Finland and Estonia that their big neighbour is still around. It has been announced it is for helicopters but what happens if they put an S400 battery there? They are entitled to its their territory but its location allows Russia to send a different message if they want, and that is the sort of diplomacy currently in vogue in the Kremlin.

As for Russia being more democratic than every before, well 10x0 is still 0. There is nothing democratic about Russia today, it is the same one party state it was in the cold war with a veneer of Western style spin and media manipulation. Russia is far form the only country that doesn't follow the rules and values we in the west cherish and out relation with Saudi Arabia need closer examination for example, but the in your face approach by Russia is only marched by that of China at present.

Are the Russian people bad, for the vast majority no, but the majority in positions of power the answer is yes, and they all follow Putin's lead, who when in doubt fall back on his time n the KGB and the play book of the USSR, with as mentioned above western style media manipulation.

So the Russians aren't coming as yet, but I wouldn't turn my back on them for a second.

[Frenchie]

Why NATO still exists, there is no more Warsaw Pact, the United States would accept new members from the former Soviet Union such as Ukraine, Georgia, to reach the border of Russia. Why, who is provocative in this story, why want to encircle Russia with American bases?
I think it's playing with fire to continue this eastward expansion policy. Putin is a dictator, like the King of Saudi Arabia, or the Emir of Qatar, to name a few.
The Russians are doomed to be our enemies forever?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Why NATO still exists, there is no more Warsaw Pact, the United States would accept new members from the former Soviet Union such as Ukraine, Georgia, to reach the border of Russia. Why, who is provocative in this story

While it is good to pose questions and seek "a balance", perhaps violating Freedom of Navigation in peace time is still a step too far?

Looks like "the chicken are coming home, to roast" even from as far (and cold) as Siberia... and it has taken "only" a third of a year to comply:
"the Kerch Strait, the only access to Ukrainian ports on the Sea of Azov.
- In May an international tribunal ordered Russia to release the sailors and vessels."

A prisoner swap is reportedly on its way... for Putin to become eligible for a Trump's golf manor visit, may be?

[Lord Jim]

Quite a fun PR video from U Tube on the current Russian Armed forces.

[xav]

Russia’s Project 16450 Oceanographic Research Vessel Transferred to New Shipyard for Completion

According to ship spotter pictures, the "Academician Ageev", first ship of Project 16450 class, was transferred under tow to a new shipyard for completion. The vessel's official designation is "oceanographic research vessel (special purpose)". Academician Ageev is being built for the Main Directorate for Deep-Water Research (GUGI) of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. GUGI is responsible for fielding specialized submarines, oceanographic research ships, undersea drones and autonomous vehicles, sensor systems, and other undersea systems.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ompletion/

Another ship to mess with cables ?

[Lord Jim]

Its real role is probably anything but what they say it is.

[SKB]

Its real role is a model builders workshop.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Getting physical... so last decade

China did a trial run of hijacking 40% of the internet traffic across the Pacific by other means... guess how much of it was generated by the USN (clue: I don't know the answer, but may be they learned something).

[Lord Jim]

Well at least the SU-57 seems to still be flying.

Pretty impressive performance.

[abc123]

Problems with Russian submarine construction:

https://russiandefpolicy.blog/2019/09/1 ... -for-subs/

[ArmChairCivvy]

As per the comments to that article
"British Astute-class submarines take the UK about 10 years a piece from time laid down to commissioning. French ballistic missile submarines took about 8-11 years from being laid down to commissioning"
so it is just about overambition (or should I say, propagandistic announcements) that come back to bite a few years down the road.

The surface fleet has taken the real hits, to keep the subs effort going:
- no replacement carrier
- no destroyer size high seas fleet
- max effort seems to be to keep one flagship in use (when will the pictured Nakhimov actually come back?)
- even the coastal fleet (frigates/ corvettes) is floundering on numbers - no more rust buckets that could reasonably be reconditioned; and also the emphasis on using that fleet as mobile "land effect" missile launchers

Am I worried...

[cky7]

Am I worried...

Depends, if I was on board a type 31 I might be!!!

Yeah I know I’ve already had one bitch about them in the RN section -sorry!!

[Qwerty]

Russia commencing exercise in Central Asia.

China and India also taking part along with Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan military.

The aim of the exercise is to counter the threat of state sponsored terrorism through use of a coalition.

https://tass.com/defense/1078232

[ArmChairCivvy]

Russia commencing exercise in Central Asia.

China and India also taking part along with Kazakhstan,

Looks like an invasion of Europe (ref; Kazakhstan... if that where they all will have their Jamboree)
- the last exercise China and India had together... was along the Line of Control (bumping into each other; fists not allowed... do they play rugby in India? Certainly not in China)

[Qwerty]

Russia commencing exercise in Central Asia.

China and India also taking part along with Kazakhstan,

Looks like an invasion of Europe (ref; Kazakhstan... if that where they all will have their Jamboree)
- the last exercise China and India had together... was along the Line of Control (bumping into each other; fists not allowed... do they play rugby in India? Certainly not in China)

I expect their respective chains of command will be insisting they remain on their best behaviour?

Personally, I prefer an Indian to a Chinese...

[SKB]

Personally, I prefer an Indian to a Chinese...

[ArmChairCivvy]

ukdefencejournal has picked up this one:
"we expect to receive the ship in late 2022,” he said.

“We have no doubts that this timeframe will be observed.”

The new timeframe anyway, work on modernising Admiral Nakhimov was resumed in January 2014 with the vessel originally being projected to rejoin the Russian Navy in 2018."
- help me with the maths; does that make it 100% late?

[Lord Jim]

I think they are using the same PR firm that many of out Politicians use. What they promise in public statements differs considerably on what is actually delivered and when.

[ArmChairCivvy]

in Russian Federation money is mainly dug out of the ground, currently a fifth of the GDP derives from North of the Polar Circle
- looking ahead, 95% of gas reserves and 75% of oil relate to the Arctic or sub-Arctic areas

and hence they have an Arctic Strategy (do we; do the US?) on the lines that may help to explain why they are testing reactions to Freedom of (not) Navigation by tipping the toe in the water in relatively unimportant places:
"the Northern Sea Route—the Arctic shipping lane that runs from just east of Norway all the way to the Bering Strait—will come to match the Suez Canal in maritime traffic. For Asian exporters such as China, the route offers a much faster and thus cheaper passage to Western markets and allows them to avoid piracy around the Horn of Africa and congestion in the Strait of Malacca.

Russia’s ambitions would not be cause for concern if it weren’t for its view that the Northern Sea Route is within its internal waters. The United States, along with most other countries, views the passage as international waters. Russia, however, claims sovereignty over the route and requires traversing vessels to seek its approval and pay transit fees for the use of its icebreakers, navigational aids, and search-and-rescue centers. In December 2017, Moscow decided that only its own vessels could transport certain mineral and energy resources along the route. Since March 2019, military vessels traveling along the passage have had to give Moscow 45 days of advance notice—a requirement that limits freedom of navigation in the Arctic’s international waters."
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... -%20112017

[abc123]

Muahahaha, poor Putin...

Saudi "remix" of Russian National Anthem...



OMG, my ears...