River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

That’s one variant yes, and the underlying design is flexible and can be evolved further for a number of roles - plus it’s exportable now.

I know people will say the Leander is another variant, which is true to a degree, I just don’t think the price tag justifies the difference with the River and Al Khareef variant classes, nor what I’d expect the Avenger to cost.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Repulse wrote:I know people will say the Leander is another variant, which is true to a degree
When one considers that "Leander" is offered in four lengths (99, 102,117 & 120m), one of which is exactly the same as the Khareef, I think it's clear that Leander is entirely a "pimped Khareef". The cost of the 120m variant comes in at £67k/ tonne, which is pretty close to the average price for a "proper" frigate (around £66k/tonne - not to be taken too literally), built to a standard "dense" design. At that price per tonne, the 102m variant would be somewhere around £187m and the 99m approx. £179m (both very rough estimates). The Khareefs themselves were £133m (roughly £168m now) each in 2009-2011. By comparison, the Babcock-built Vards were around £27k/tonne).
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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

Caribbean, I see your point and would happily see a £170mn design as a reasonable way forward based on a Khareef / Avenger Class - for the £1.5bn as the total T31 budget (build plus design), we would be very close to an option of 5 of the plus another T26.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Type 31 budget is 1.25 billion as very recently reconfirmed by the MoD in a written Parliamentary answer to Adm West. Not 1.5. And the budget includes research, development, design & initial service as well as build of 5 ships.

Type 31 Leander will come in at about 50k per ton i.e approx half Type 26.

The Leander being offered to the RN is the 117m version.

IMO, Aetholwulf has made the best guess at to what differentiates the 120m from the 117m design and that is the addition of a Merlin sized hangar with everything else remaining the same. If that's true and anyone thinks that's what the RN should be ordering, I'm 100% in agreement.

There's no secret or controversy that Leander is a stretched Al Khareef corvette, Bae has described it so from day one. And that the Al Khareef has its design roots in the VT design team that were responsible for the Rivers. I think the Vosper house styling still shows to a degree.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: Are the RN really that against operating anything called a "Corvette"?
In the days of the deepest controversy around the LCS designs, the then-DefSec said "What the h@ll should we do; buy some corvettes instead?"
- RN thinks the same - they just don't spell it out
Caribbean wrote: Leander is entirely a "pimped Khareef". The cost of the 120m variant comes in at £67k/ tonne, which is pretty close to the average price for a "proper" frigate (around £66k/tonne
+
Ron5 wrote:Type 31 Leander will come in at about 50k per ton i.e approx half Type 26.

The Leander being offered to the RN is the 117m version.
The Spanish sell teir BAMs by the meter, in various lengths: a cool e1 mln per meter... so a different metric
Ron5 wrote:I think the Vosper house styling still shows to a degree.
Sure does.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

I think talking about Khareef's is a long way north of what a River class is and should be. For me the end of the line River class should be 100 meters with Wildcat hangar with a Phalanx mount on top so the weapon can be fitted if needed and a 57 mm gun the extra 10 meters should be used to hold the helicopter team, fuel and weapons with all other things staying the same . This would allow BAE to have 3 classes of ships

1) OVP's 85 meter basic ship up to 100 meter Sloops
2) 99 meter Corvette up to 120 meter light Frigate
3) Type 26 global combat Frigate

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding
Oh dear

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Well (for a ship) it would be better than calling it a T-bird or a Mustang. :mrgreen:

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Caribbean »

Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding
Maybe we should call it a "freedom frigate" :D
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding
Interesting. For me, modern corvette was “reborn” when UK built Flower class corvettes, which is even BEFORE a modern Frigate was reborn. Isn’t is has a long and brilliant RN history?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by NickC »

BAE Systems 2018 Annual Report dd 28 March 2019

"Offshore Patriol Vessel programme quality issues have required the creation of a £47m loss provision"

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding
Interesting. For me, modern corvette was “reborn” when UK built Flower class corvettes, which is even BEFORE a modern Frigate was reborn. Isn’t is has a long and brilliant RN history?
My comment was tongue in cheek. I'm pretty sure "frigate" has a french origin also :-)

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Image
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Great photos - thanks

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Dutch Holland-class OPV performing Naval Gunfire Support in Joint Warrior exercise. A 76mm gun shot.
In low threat environment, even an OPV with a gun = Floreal-like can do some good jobs, I guess? All depend on the threat level.

# Of course not as a full-fat frigate, but just as a "Floreal-like" vessel = somewhere in between the large gap of a full-fat frigate (~1B GBP average) and an OPV (~100M GBP average, or even less).

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Pop gun . :clap:

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

In Falmouth at the mo - HMS Severn coming along nicely.

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”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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Another pic of HMS Severn from earlier in the week.

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”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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HMS Medway (P223)
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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HMS Spey (P226)
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote:Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P
Extensive upkeep work has been done. Is her fate after 2020 been decided or there are still possibilities to be sold on 2020?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

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donald_of_tokyo wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P
Extensive upkeep work has been done. Is her fate after 2020 been decided or there are still possibilities to be sold on 2020?
Who really knows right now with a change at the top but given the work being done my guess and it is only a guess is that with the escort fleet mostly in life EX I think we will the B1's stay until 2023 freeing up the B2's to under take overseas deployments

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