Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[Ron5]

Shamelessly stolen from another board:

Parliamentary written answers 26th Feb :-

Asked by Lord West of Spithead
Asked on: 19 February 2019
Ministry of Defence
Type 26 Frigates
HL13888
To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the unit price of each of the three Type 26 frigates presently on order.

A
Answered by: Earl Howe
Answered on: 26 February 2019

In July 2017, the Ministry of Defence (MOD) announced the award of a contract valued at £3.7 billion to manufacture the first batch of three Type 26 Frigates. The manufacture contract covers the build of the first three Type 26 Frigates through to sea trials and vessel acceptance by the Royal Navy, as well as the remaining development costs for the class. The contract also includes the procurement of the medium calibre gun for the first three ships and the modifications needed to the Clyde shipyards at Govan and Scotstoun to enable the manufacture of the Type 26. The detailed pricing of the contract is a commercial matter between the MOD and BAE Systems and I am withholding the cost per ship, as its publication would be prejudicial to commercial interests.

[donald_of_tokyo]

A little old story, from https://adbr.com.au/breaking-bae-type-2 ... -sea-5000/

RAN T26 starts building in 2020, and the 9th hull will be delivered on 2042.

I suspect
- 1st hull handed-over on 2026 (6 years build).
- 1 hull every 2 years, for 8 more hulls, it will give us 2042.

As UK T26 started on 2027, and the 8th hull will be handed over to RN on ~2035, as I understand.
- 1st hull handed over on 2025 (commission in 2027),
- 1 hull every 1.5 years, for 7 more hulls, it will give us late-2035.

How fast Canadian T26 are planned to be built?

Untitled.jpg

[R686]

A little old story, from https://adbr.com.au/breaking-bae-type-2 ... -sea-5000/

RAN T26 starts building in 2020, and the 9th hull will be delivered on 2042.

I suspect
- 1st hull handed-over on 2026 (6 years build).
- 1 hull every 2 years, for 8 more hulls, it will give us 2042.

As UK T26 started on 2027, and the 8th hull will be handed over to RN on ~2035, as I understand.
- 1st hull handed over on 2025 (commission in 2027),
- 1 hull every 1.5 years, for 7 more hulls, it will give us late-2035.

How fast Canadian T26 are planned to be built?

Untitled.jpg

Shit you made me feel all old, ill be dead and buried before the last of the Hunters come on line

[Ron5]

This is the quote on USNI regarding FFG(X):

"The service is set to award the final design and construction contract for the frigate program in 2020, with the delivery of the first ship estimated to occur six years later, according to a draft request for proposal issued last week. The $1.3 billion cost for the lead ship falls just about $400 million less than an Arleigh Burke Flight III guided-missile destroyer"

Delivery 6 years after contract.

[Mercator]

A little old story, from https://adbr.com.au/breaking-bae-type-2 ... -sea-5000/

RAN T26 starts building in 2020, and the 9th hull will be delivered on 2042.

I suspect
- 1st hull handed-over on 2026 (6 years build).
- 1 hull every 2 years, for 8 more hulls, it will give us 2042.

As UK T26 started on 2027, and the 8th hull will be handed over to RN on ~2035, as I understand.
- 1st hull handed over on 2025 (commission in 2027),
- 1 hull every 1.5 years, for 7 more hulls, it will give us late-2035.

How fast Canadian T26 are planned to be built?

Untitled.jpg

Not to mess up your timeline too much, Donald. But if you look at graphic, you'll see that there is actually 2 programs in that timeline. The Future Frigate and the AWD Replacement programs. The AWD Replacement begins in 2038 (presumably using the same hull) and is probably, if it's a one-for-one replacement, 3 extra hulls. So that's a total of 12 hulls between 2020 and 2042 (average 1.8 years between builds). Although if you look at the graphic, between 2038-42, the build rate would have to be 1.3 years to do 3 hulls (I read 2042 to be the close of the program, not the start of the 3rd hull). So the build rate has some build in variability. Slower at the beginning, obviously.

[Mercator]

Also, while the first hull might not be turned over till 2026 (6 years after they start), I think they will probably start with the basic hull of the 2nd vessel around 2025. (The AWD program had 3 on the go at one point). There's probably not much risk in that. 11 vessels between 2025 and 2042 is a little over 1.5 years average. Recognising that they will finish at a build rate of 1.3 years, they probably will start with something in the region of 2 years per hull.

That's my guess anyway.

[seaspear]

2040 is a long time to believe that the hull for the replacement Hobart would be unchanged from the Hunters class or even what the requirements for this ship would be ,

[ArmChairCivvy]

The AWD Replacement begins in 2038 (presumably using the same hull)

(average 1.8 years between builds

Will be interesting to see if same kind of figures/ years for timing and sequencing will be transposed onto our NSS update/ review (due over the summer)

[Mercator]

2040 is a long time to believe that the hull for the replacement Hobart would be unchanged from the Hunters class or even what the requirements for this ship would be ,

Sure. Not unchanged, but a variant. That's just my guess. Part of me thinks I heard something official along those lines, but perhaps it was just ASPI or someone like that. I'll see if I can find something.

Either way, they have plenty of time to come up with something that's ready to immediately follow on. Whatever that may be. Self-evidently though, they don't plan to mess about. 3 in 4 years.

PS. And the replacement program starts at 2038 in their graphic. Not 2040.

The AWD will still be young then (20 years). So I wouldn't be certain of that start date. But that's what they're saying.

[I'll bail out from further discussion on this here. It's getting beyond a "News" discussion. Drop into the Australian thread and I'll engage there.]

[donald_of_tokyo]

Not to mess up your timeline too much, Donald. But if you look at graphic, you'll see that there is actually 2 programs in that timeline. The Future Frigate and the AWD Replacement programs. The AWD Replacement begins in 2038 (presumably using the same hull) and is probably, if it's a one-for-one replacement, 3 extra hulls. So that's a total of 12 hulls between 2020 and 2042 (average 1.8 years between builds). Although if you look at the graphic, between 2038-42, the build rate would have to be 1.3 years to do 3 hulls (I read 2042 to be the close of the program, not the start of the 3rd hull). So the build rate has some build in variability. Slower at the beginning, obviously.

Disagree. The plot clearly states, 9th Hunt-class will be delivered on 2042. AWD-replacement (may) start on 2038, which means its first hull will be delivered to RAN on 2044, when HMAS Hobert is 27 years old.

I agree further discussion could take place on RAN thread, as anyway my point is Australia is building their T26 slower than UK's T26. No surprise.

[Mercator]

[I'll drop this here, because it is still new information for some. And it rounds out Donald's reply.More on the Oz thread, if you like.]

Not to mess up your timeline too much, Donald. But if you look at graphic, you'll see that there is actually 2 programs in that timeline. The Future Frigate and the AWD Replacement programs. The AWD Replacement begins in 2038 (presumably using the same hull) and is probably, if it's a one-for-one replacement, 3 extra hulls. So that's a total of 12 hulls between 2020 and 2042 (average 1.8 years between builds). Although if you look at the graphic, between 2038-42, the build rate would have to be 1.3 years to do 3 hulls (I read 2042 to be the close of the program, not the start of the 3rd hull). So the build rate has some build in variability. Slower at the beginning, obviously.

Disagree. The plot clearly states, 9th Hunt-class will be delivered on 2042. AWD-replacement (may) start on 2038, which means its first hull will be delivered to RAN on 2044, when HMAS Hobert is 27 years old.

I agree further discussion could take place on RAN thread, as anyway my point is Australia is building their T26 slower than UK's T26. No surprise.

Donald, there is a national shipbuilding plan which you may have seen:

http://www.defence.gov.au/NavalShipbuil ... efault.asp

On page 110 there is a Timeline graphic and a discussion at page 30. It fairly definitively notes the delivery of the 9th Future Frigate at 2038 and the commencement of the follow-on at the same year.



Plans change, to be sure. But I think the notion of 2038 as the changeover is fairly robust at the moment.

[jonas]

Some very strange looking communications masts here:-

https://www.sts-defence.com/first-t26-c ... =hootsuite

[The Armchair Soldier]

[Cooper]

Utterly stupid to name a RN warship after city whose population voted for the break up of the UK in 2014, if you ask me.

[RetroSicotte]

Utterly stupid to name a RN warship after city whose population voted for the break up of the UK in 2014, if you ask me.

The people in Glasgow who actually care what it's called are the ones who would have voted "Naw".

If anything, the association is for the shipbuilders, who overwhelmingly voted no.

Can't let every decision and the recognition of those worthy be mandated by the loonies in one referendum. Remember, the minority of Glasgow's total populace voted "Yes".

[Poiuytrewq]

A bit more on the progress of HMS Glasgow from @SaveTheRoyalNavy.

Sometime in 2021, the structurally complete ship will be lowered into the water before she is towed down river for 6 more years(!) of fitting out & trials before joining the fleet in 2027

Absolutely bonkers

[ArmChairCivvy]

before she is towed down river for 6 more years(!) of fitting out

Have to fit out the 5 T31s in-between and will only get to the T-26 in the 6th year
- as we only have one military fitting-out yard

[donald_of_tokyo]

before she is towed down river for 6 more years(!) of fitting out

Have to fit out the 5 T31s in-between and will only get to the T-26 in the 6th year
- as we only have one military fitting-out yard

Umm, not sure.

In 2021, the ship will be launched. In 2025, the ship will be delivered to RN, and RN continues its testing, until commission on 2027.

So, it is four years from launch to deliver. As it includes shipyard's own verifications (at least a year long, to my understanding), it means she needs three years for fitting out, as the first of class ship.

It is a bit long, I agree, but is it really too long?

Also, RN needs her crew by 2025 delivery. So, her crew comes from HMS Argyll (decommission in 2023) or Lancaster (2024). I am wondering how RN can find it. Still 2 escorts are in very low readiness = little crew, and many T23 in LIFEX will come back eventually. Regardless of 1st Sea Lord's speech, the number of RN member is not growing, as a fact (may be re-rolling of RM 43 commando is helping RN man-power a little?).

[Pongoglo]

(may be re-rolling of RM 43 commando is helping RN man-power a little?).

It helps not a bit, all it does is free up the PIDS ie relieve the budget a tad. The reality is that the manpower shortage is down to the fact that despite a bloody good recruiting campaign, like the other services ( and in the case of the Army the campaign is crap) the RN cannot recruit , or at least in the numbers it needs. Know one believes that there are a who!e load of ex 42 Booty's ( it was they that got re-rolled not 43) dressed up as Matelot's and retraining at Drake to form the future crew of a Type 26.

[S M H]

Know one believes that there are a who!e load of ex 42 Booty's ( it was they that got re-rolled not 43) dressed up as Matelot's and retraining at Drake to form the future crew of a Type 26.

I beg to differ with your thinking R M personnel who were made surplus to trade transferred to the R A F marine branch were among best crew men . They would be superb matelots if anything by the calibre of the one I served with. As for manning a type 26 I wouldn't like to be a adversary if they crewed it.(my apologies for replying as this is not news but I felt as someone who has served with retrained marines they would make excellent crew.)

[sunstersun]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... make-sense

[RetroSicotte]

Pretty poorly researched article. For one, it states the RN only has 16 Mk41 silo tubes, not 24, and states the Australian one has 48, when it has 32. Similarly, where did that "two versions" thing for the Canadian one come from? That's new to me.

[Jake1992]

pretty poorly researched article. for one, it states the rn only has 16 mk41 silo tubes, not 24, and states the australian one has 48, when it has 32. similarly, where did that "two versions" thing for the canadian one come from? that's new to me.

Very poor it even refers to the FTI as the FDI and says Canada is looking at the T31 as well

[Aethulwulf]

I think you're missing the point, which is the US Navy Institute chose to run an article in its Proceedings magazine which suggests the USN should buy the T26 under their FFG(X) program.

This is an indication that such discussions are taking place within the USN.

When was the last time that a UK warship design was considered by the USN?

[Poiuytrewq]

The Mk41 numbers are all over the place but I agree, the crucial point is the seemingly increasing momentum to include the T26 in the FFG(X) programme.

My opinion has always been the same, why would the USN want to choose a design that has been rejected by some of it closest Allies? Do the USN really want second best?

It appears that things like the proposed closure of the GE plant in Rugby will not be helping the T26's cause, unless it is GE's long term plan to move all production to the US.

I find this extremely worrying. It's difficult to see the upsides of such a facility leaving the UK.

I can't imagine the Australian and Canadian Governments being too impressed either.

Hopefully BAE or Rolls Royce will step in and solve this problem but HMG could solve it immediately by ordering the long lead items for the second batch of T26's now. It appears HMT is refusing to commit the necessary financing.

After all the success of the T26 export success HMG really should be trying harder than this to protect the vital supply chain. It is very clearly in the National interest.