Indian Armed Forces

[abc123]

Indians and their ususal circus...

You'd think they'd have remembered to remove the second engine from the photo first.

It seems that their first attack managed to hit some trees in the woods, but no terrorists...

[seaspear]

The post I added identified the wreckage of an F16 through serial numbers in the wreckage

[RetroSicotte]

The post I added identified the wreckage of an F16 through serial numbers in the wreckage

If it's the same one I've seen (can't view the pics at work) then there is contention on that. There's photos from multiple angles, and shows not only that it (again if the one I saw) was a MiG-21, it even had a big ol' Indian flag on it on the other side.

[seaspear]

The pictures of this wreckage I have posted do not include flags or rondels ,but include a part with serial number 80269 identified by f16..net as a F16 that was supplied by Jordan and panel parts that appear to be of an f16 engine

[RetroSicotte]

The pictures of this wreckage I have posted do not include flags or rondels ,but include a part with serial number 80269 identified by f16..net as a F16 that was supplied by Jordan and panel parts that appear to be of an f16 engine

I'll have a peek when I get home then, may not have seen that image yet. Defo some caption wars going on, but will see whats there in maybe a couple hours. Gym comes first :p

[abc123]

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/pakist ... 220950.cms

[RetroSicotte]

Seen this kicking around Twitter.

Was this the one you meant? Seems pretty conclusive that it's a bit of a MiG just from a specific angle.

Pretty certain thats a MiG nozzle too. I don't think the F-16 has the "perforated" design on it.

[seaspear]

I believe that than arrow is pointing at number three showing the parts mentioned in F16. as belonging to an f16 from Jordan ,there were other pictures in that post that were matched to an f16

[Simon82]

There’s an interesting piece on the Bellingcat website about the identity of the photographed aircraft wreckage:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of ... -21-wreck/

[seaspear]

I have to stand corrected on my previous post and my post was in error

[ArmChairCivvy]

As for the encounter itself
"Pakistani journalists and retired defence officials have since tweeted that the aircraft which brought down the Indian jet was a JF-17 Thunder, an aircraft made by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in collaboration with Chengdu Aircraft Corporation of China."
- would this have been the first time a Russian design and a Chinese one have engaged in combat?

[Qwerty]

Pakistan still pushing for JF17 sales...

[serge750]

Perhaps the F16 & the mig21 collided.....

[ArmChairCivvy]

It is becoming rapidly clearer why Pakistan has kept up this smoke screen whether a Falcon F-16 or a Thunder (F-17 ) was involved on their side. This (from a Reuters piece of yesterday) ties in nicely with the ITAR discussion that sprung up on the carrier thread, as ITAR (before the fact) and end user agreements (kicking in after) are on the same, sliding scale:

"The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad said on Sunday it was looking into reports that Pakistan used F-16 jets to shoot down the Indian pilot, a potential violation of Washington’s military sale agreements that limit how Pakistan can use the planes.

“We are aware of these reports and are seeking more information,” a U.S. Embassy spokesperson said. “We take all allegations of misuse of defense articles very seriously.”

While Pakistan has denied using F-16 jets during a dogfight that downed an Indian Mig-21 warplane over Kashmir on Wednesday, it has not specified which planes it used, though it assembles Chinese-designed JF-17 fighter jets on its soil.

Pakistan has a long history of buying U.S. military hardware, especially in the years after 2001 when Islamabad was seen as a key partner in the U.S.-led War on Terror.

Pakistan bought several batches of F-16 planes, built by Lockheed Martin Corp, from Washington before relations soured and the United States cut off subsidized sales in 2016.

It is not clear what exactly these so-called “end-user agreements” restrict Pakistan from doing. “The U.S. Government does not comment on or confirm pending investigations of this nature,” the U.S. Embassy added.

On Thursday Indian officials displayed to reporters parts of what they called an air-to-air missile that can only be fired from F-16 jets, alleging they were used to bomb its side of the disputed Kashmir border on Wednesday.

A Pakistan military spokesman told reporters on Wednesday that Pakistani jets “locked” on Indian targets to demonstrate Pakistan’s capacity to strike back at India, but then chose to fire in an empty field where there would be no casualties.

Pakistan said its mission on Wednesday was in retaliation for India violating its airspace and sovereignty a day earlier, when Indian jets bombed a forest"

Tit-for-tat: an empty field for an empty forest

[abc123]

No problem, China will be more than happy to sell them J-10.

[xav]

India to Sign Second Akula-class SSN Submarine Lease Agreement with Russia

India is set to conclude an agreement with Russia for the lease of a second nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN). The amount of the transaction will be around 3 billion US dollars.

According to Indian daily newspaper ‘The Economic Times‘, an intergovernmental agreement on the lease of an Akula-class submarine (Project 971) is likely to be signed on March 7, 2019. As part of the deal called “Chakra III”, the submarine will be transferred to India by 2025 after an extensive modernization program by a yet to be named Russian shipyard.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... th-russia/

[ArmChairCivvy]

lease of a second nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN). The amount of the transaction will be around 3 billion US dollars.

In a lease-or-buy calculation it would look like we are getting out Astutes far too cheaply
... or that lease between India and Russia is damn costly?

[andrew98]

Or the Russians expect the Indians to try and reverse engineer it and attempt to build their own SSN's in the future?

[ArmChairCivvy]

They (and Argentina... see country thread... in cahoots with Brazil) are supposedly at it.
- in due course
- and while that is happening, at least some core crews will be created

[ArmChairCivvy]

Reuters has been digging behind the scenes:
"At one stage, India threatened to fire at least six missiles at Pakistan, and Islamabad said it would respond with its own missile strikes “three times over”, according to Western diplomats and government sources in New Delhi, Islamabad and Washington.

The exchanges did not get beyond threats, and there was no suggestion that the missiles involved were anything more than conventional weapons, but they created consternation in official circles in Washington, Beijing and London. "

Imagine the exchange (words or missiles) between Iran and S. Arabia?

[SW1]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 506398.cms

Sources who were part of the discussions between Parrikar and Carter in 2015 said two specific issues were raised in discussions that took place in New Delhi and Washington. “One of the issues was that the Amraams have a long range and they cannot be used against terrorists but would be targeted at us,” a three-star rank officer who was part of the discussions told ET.

Carter responded to this by assuring that the missiles will not be used against India and the US has a mechanism to make them ineffective if they are used during war. “If they use it for an offensive purpose, they can interfere with the mechanism and make them ineffective,” the officer, who was involved in the talks, told ET.

The second issue was the potential of misuse of F16s to deliver nuclear bombs against India. An assurance was given that in case of a potential nuclear attack, the US can disable the aircraft. That, if they use nukes, they won’t be able to operate the F16s,” the officer said.

[xav]

U.S. Approves Sale of 24 MH-60R Maritime Helicopters for Indian Navy

The United States' State Department approved a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of twenty-four (24) MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters for an estimated cost of $2.6 billion.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... dian-navy/

[Lord Jim]

India is really moving towards the west and the USA in particular when it comes to complex weapon systems these days. This is going to hurt the Russian defence industries who saw the country as a major market. It is also interesting that India seems to be willing to drop its usual demand for high level of Technological transfer and work transfer with these deals with the US.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Ooops: https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/di ... t-says-no/

[abc123]

India plans to buy 21 MiG-29

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24562/ ... KpBOlUzaUk