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River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Lord Jim
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 27 Mar 2019, 19:56

Swap out VL-Mica for Sea Ceptor and MM40 Exocet for whatever the RN chooses to replace its block 1 Harpoons and with a range of 4500 Nm the RN could surely do worse for a platform to operate outside the Carrier Group. Their design spec. seems to exceed that of the T-31e RIF in most areas and we could have around eight for what is in the latter's budget. Why has this design be excluded from consideration for that project? Are the RN really that against operating anything called a "Corvette"?

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 27 Mar 2019, 21:05



That’s one variant yes, and the underlying design is flexible and can be evolved further for a number of roles - plus it’s exportable now.

I know people will say the Leander is another variant, which is true to a degree, I just don’t think the price tag justifies the difference with the River and Al Khareef variant classes, nor what I’d expect the Avenger to cost.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 27 Mar 2019, 22:07

Repulse wrote:I know people will say the Leander is another variant, which is true to a degree

When one considers that "Leander" is offered in four lengths (99, 102,117 & 120m), one of which is exactly the same as the Khareef, I think it's clear that Leander is entirely a "pimped Khareef". The cost of the 120m variant comes in at £67k/ tonne, which is pretty close to the average price for a "proper" frigate (around £66k/tonne - not to be taken too literally), built to a standard "dense" design. At that price per tonne, the 102m variant would be somewhere around £187m and the 99m approx. £179m (both very rough estimates). The Khareefs themselves were £133m (roughly £168m now) each in 2009-2011. By comparison, the Babcock-built Vards were around £27k/tonne).
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 27 Mar 2019, 22:49

Caribbean, I see your point and would happily see a £170mn design as a reasonable way forward based on a Khareef / Avenger Class - for the £1.5bn as the total T31 budget (build plus design), we would be very close to an option of 5 of the plus another T26.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 28 Mar 2019, 00:17

Type 31 budget is 1.25 billion as very recently reconfirmed by the MoD in a written Parliamentary answer to Adm West. Not 1.5. And the budget includes research, development, design & initial service as well as build of 5 ships.

Type 31 Leander will come in at about 50k per ton i.e approx half Type 26.

The Leander being offered to the RN is the 117m version.

IMO, Aetholwulf has made the best guess at to what differentiates the 120m from the 117m design and that is the addition of a Merlin sized hangar with everything else remaining the same. If that's true and anyone thinks that's what the RN should be ordering, I'm 100% in agreement.

There's no secret or controversy that Leander is a stretched Al Khareef corvette, Bae has described it so from day one. And that the Al Khareef has its design roots in the VT design team that were responsible for the Rivers. I think the Vosper house styling still shows to a degree.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 28 Mar 2019, 04:44

Lord Jim wrote: Are the RN really that against operating anything called a "Corvette"?
In the days of the deepest controversy around the LCS designs, the then-DefSec said "What the h@ll should we do; buy some corvettes instead?"
- RN thinks the same - they just don't spell it out
Caribbean wrote: Leander is entirely a "pimped Khareef". The cost of the 120m variant comes in at £67k/ tonne, which is pretty close to the average price for a "proper" frigate (around £66k/tonne

+
Ron5 wrote:Type 31 Leander will come in at about 50k per ton i.e approx half Type 26.

The Leander being offered to the RN is the 117m version.

The Spanish sell teir BAMs by the meter, in various lengths: a cool e1 mln per meter... so a different metric
Ron5 wrote:I think the Vosper house styling still shows to a degree.
Sure does.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 28 Mar 2019, 10:45

I think talking about Khareef's is a long way north of what a River class is and should be. For me the end of the line River class should be 100 meters with Wildcat hangar with a Phalanx mount on top so the weapon can be fitted if needed and a 57 mm gun the extra 10 meters should be used to hold the helicopter team, fuel and weapons with all other things staying the same . This would allow BAE to have 3 classes of ships

1) OVP's 85 meter basic ship up to 100 meter Sloops
2) 99 meter Corvette up to 120 meter light Frigate
3) Type 26 global combat Frigate

Ron5
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 28 Mar 2019, 17:47

"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 28 Mar 2019, 18:00

Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding


Oh dear

Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 28 Mar 2019, 18:45

Well (for a ship) it would be better than calling it a T-bird or a Mustang. :mrgreen:

Caribbean
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 28 Mar 2019, 19:34

Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding

Maybe we should call it a "freedom frigate" :D
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 28 Mar 2019, 23:18

Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding
Interesting. For me, modern corvette was “reborn” when UK built Flower class corvettes, which is even BEFORE a modern Frigate was reborn. Isn’t is has a long and brilliant RN history?

NickC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby NickC » 04 Apr 2019, 10:22

BAE Systems 2018 Annual Report dd 28 March 2019

"Offshore Patriol Vessel programme quality issues have required the creation of a £47m loss provision"

Ron5
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 04 Apr 2019, 19:02

donald_of_tokyo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:"corvette" is too darned frenchie sounding
Interesting. For me, modern corvette was “reborn” when UK built Flower class corvettes, which is even BEFORE a modern Frigate was reborn. Isn’t is has a long and brilliant RN history?


My comment was tongue in cheek. I'm pretty sure "frigate" has a french origin also :-)

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 05 Apr 2019, 11:56


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Ron5
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 05 Apr 2019, 17:55

Great photos - thanks

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 06 Apr 2019, 14:41

Dutch Holland-class OPV performing Naval Gunfire Support in Joint Warrior exercise. A 76mm gun shot.
In low threat environment, even an OPV with a gun = Floreal-like can do some good jobs, I guess? All depend on the threat level.

# Of course not as a full-fat frigate, but just as a "Floreal-like" vessel = somewhere in between the large gap of a full-fat frigate (~1B GBP average) and an OPV (~100M GBP average, or even less).

Pongoglo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Pongoglo » 06 Apr 2019, 17:22

Pop gun . :clap:

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 09 Apr 2019, 16:09




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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 16 Apr 2019, 21:07

In Falmouth at the mo - HMS Severn coming along nicely.

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"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 21 Apr 2019, 17:51

Another pic of HMS Severn from earlier in the week.

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"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 02 May 2019, 17:00

Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 02 May 2019, 17:23

HMS Medway (P223)

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 02 May 2019, 17:24

HMS Spey (P226)

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donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 03 May 2019, 07:11

Tempest414 wrote:Nice piece on UKDJ site on the work being done on HMS Seven at A&P
Extensive upkeep work has been done. Is her fate after 2020 been decided or there are still possibilities to be sold on 2020?


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