French Armed Forces

[Scimitar54]

Photographer had better hope that he is in a Helicopter then. So maybe, just maybe his pilot could land where the arrow marks the spot

[xav]

French Navy Rafale M Fires MBDA METEOR BVRAAM for the 1st Time

The French Ministry of the Armed Forces announced that a French Navy (Marine Nationale) Rafale M fighter fired a METEOR air to air missile for the first time on 13 February 2019.
...
The French Navy fighter used for the test was highly likely the (for now unique) Rafale M F-3R aircraft which was delivered in December 2018. F-3R is the latest standard of the Rafale, bringing a number of new capabilities including the integration of the METEOR missile.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... -1st-time/

[ArmChairCivvy]

The French Navy fighter used for the test was highly likely the (for now unique) Rafale M F-3R aircraft which was delivered in December 2018

I was wondering why they only bought 16 or was it 18 Meteors last year; OK - the integration has only just reached ISD ( or is it exaggeration to call it that, with the first launch?).

[RetroSicotte]

Huh, I thought it was already in service.

Didn't realise it was that far back compared to Typhoon and Gripen.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Huh, I thought it was already in service.

Me too

[Lord Jim]

They were happy to wait for the Rafale updates to be in place according to the planned timetable it seems, and were in no real rush as they knew when it would arrive.

[xav]

ECA GROUP unveils INSPECTOR 125 unsinkable USV

ECA GROUP, in collaboration with its naval architecture subsidiary MAURIC, integrates a new USV – (Unmanned Surface Vehicle) into its range of naval drones systems. The new INSPECTOR 125, based on an operational platform, is designed for high seas operations.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... kable-usv/

It is based on an "unsinkable" SAR boat design used by the French SNSM (coast guard kind of...)

[xav]

Pretty cool concept / idea: A naval VSHORAD solution... in a container... can be fitted aboard supply ships.... but aboard landing craft as well if you think about it

MBDA unveils the SPIMM Self-Protection Integrated Mistral Module

At NAVDEX 2019, MBDA unveiled the SPIMM (Self-Protection Integrated Mistral Module), an all-in-one air defence module based on the SIMBAD-RC system and designed to equip ships of all types, particularly those without a combat system (such as supply ships).

The SPIMM module consists of a SIMBAD-RC automated naval turret equipped with two ready-to-fire Mistral missiles and a 360° infrared panoramic system to detect and track air and surface threats. The system is entirely controlled by two operators located in a shelter inside the module, which is also used to store four additional missiles. This ISO standard “all-in-one” module, 10 feet long and weighing some 7 tons, can be easily positioned on the deck of a ship using a crane, and requires just a standard electrical connection.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... al-module/

[ArmChairCivvy]

Great idea,reminds me of the containerised NEMO... easy to drop onto a vessel, too.

[xav]

So I went to MBDA on Monday to learn more

[RetroSicotte]

Lucky you :p

Thank you for continuing to offer all this news, given your proximity and understanding of matters on the other side of the channel from us. It's great seeing a source that has that as a 'known national focus' in the same way much of ours is all UK sourced and based.

[xav]

French Navy’s 6th FREMM frigate Normandie starts sea trials

The French Navy’s sixth FREMM Normandie started builder's trials on February 25, Naval Group announced today. Based on photos posted on the company’s Twitter account, the multirole frigate seems to have set sail from the Naval Group Lorient shipyard.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... ea-trials/

[Lord Jim]

I do like the FREMM but I think the Italian spec versions are both better looking and more capable.

[RetroSicotte]

I do like the FREMM but I think the Italian spec versions are both better looking and more capable.

For the most part, yeah. Better radar, more allowance for anti-air, larger, faster, better propulsion, better guns/ammo.

The main thing the French FREMM has though is those SCALP missiles. That's a notable missing feature on the Italian variant.

[xav]

The Aquitaine-class is usually regarded as having a lower signature, in all aspects: radiated noise, IR, RCS...

The last two FREMM (the so called FREDA) should have been the baseline configuration for the entire class IMO... The overall performance of the "boosted" HERAKLES remains a mystery to me however... And I've been told that HERAKLES is a "limiting factor" to the performance of the ASTER 30 (eventough the Singapore navy picked that combo long before the FREMM, for their Formidable class)

[ArmChairCivvy]

been told that HERAKLES is a "limiting factor" to the performance of the ASTER 30 (eventough the Singapore navy picked that combo long before the FREMM, for their Formidable class)

In Singapore's case it is less of a limiting factor as the ships mainly operate as part of a "forward defence" and they have a built-in, CEC-like integrated (as in networked) battle mgt system, which (according to the released information, who can verify?) gives each ship a 200 nm sphere of influence - well beyond any weapons (so far) installed

[Lord Jim]

I do find it interesting how the French navy looks at what capabilities its platforms need. They appear to have decided that a CIWS like Phalanx is not needed and that the use of ships to provide NGFS is no longer valid as they have opted for OTO76mm on their platforms.

[Poiuytrewq]

The main thing the French FREMM has though is those SCALP missiles. That's a notable missing feature on the Italian variant.

An interesting report on the effectiveness of the French FREMM and SCALP combination, nothing new but possibly of interest for those who haven't read it.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... uble-36322


Here is the translation of the linked attachment.

Because it was held responsible for a new chemical attack committed a week earlier in a neighborhood of Eastern Goutha, French, American and British forces hit the Syrian chemical program during the night of April 13 to 14, 2018 as part of the "Hamilton" operation.

The latter mobilized, on the French side, 3 FREMM, 5 Rafale, 2 E-3F AWACS, 6 C-135FR and 4 Mirage 2000-5 tanker aircraft as well as support ships. A total of 12 cruise missiles were fired, including 3 MdCN by the FREMM Languedoc [a first for this type of ammunition, ed] and 9 Scalp by the Rafale.

If the designated targets were reached, however, Operation Hamilton experienced some failures. Indeed, FREMM Aquitaine and Auvergne could not launch their missiles and it was therefore the one who stood in reserve who pulled his. Many things were put forward (presence of Russian ships in the area, technical failure (s), etc.) later to explain this sequence of circumstances. In June, the Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly, condemned any speculation on this subject.

"I do not think it's necessary to draw the conclusion that we have to go to the press and shoot ourselves in the foot by playing against the interests of our country," the minister said, before describing the "leaks. On Operation Hamilton as "malicious" because they "harm our armies and our industries".

"After any operation, there are lessons to be learned. The military has a well-established process for this: RETEX, or feedback, which we are currently using, "Parly said.

In his report for an opinion on the credits of the French Navy, the deputy Jacques Marilossian lifted part of the veil on these RETEX concerning Operation Hamilton.

Thus, it does not fail to emphasize the complexity of the latter, whether at the strategic level ("it is never easy to find an agreement between allies on the diagnosis of the crisis and the response to be made"), operative ("The choice of objectives is by nature more complicated to stop at three powers than in the context of a national operation" and tactical ("it was necessary to concentrate the action to limit the impact on the targets in time, whereas the firing platforms were distributed in many places far from each other ", while knowing that" missiles have complex trajectories ").

Anyway, the member argues, the Navy has retained "four sets of lessons" that shed light on the nature of the problems encountered during this operation.

The first is of a "technical" order. Indeed, says Mr. Marilossian, "hardware devices for implementing MDCN can be improved. That being the case, he reassures, "the required work has already been done or is underway. "

The second lesson learned emphasizes, more than ever, the importance and challenges of operational readiness. "Two of the three FREMMs engaged in the Hamilton operation were deployed in the French exercise zones off Toulon" when they were mobilized. For Admiral Prazuck, the chief of staff of the French Navy [CEMM], this shows that "the time is over where we had fifteen days to build up" for a major naval operation.

In addition, this operational readiness must focus on "shooting training. On this point, Mr. Marilossian argues that the "Navy needs to regain a level of training much more intensive shooting, including shooting complex ammunition. "

Finally, the RETEX of these strikes in Syria also evokes "doctrinal stakes", which concern the ability to operate in areas with means of interdiction and denial of access [A2 / AD]. Must we understand that the Russian forces, which deployed such means as part of their engagement in Syrian territory, have hampered the maneuvering of French ships?

"Hamilton operated in the enemy A2AD zone, and the owners of these defenses had some said they would use them," said the MP. "This is a break with the era of absolute superiority at sea and in the air," which means that "the tactical use of our weapons must be redesigned," said Admiral Prazuck. A dimension that takes into account the "Mercator Plan", launched during the summer by the latter.

"Our units must relearn how to operate in a non-permissive environment, that is, mined, scrambled, hacked, NRBC, while preparing to face new threats ranging from self-contained boating to missiles. the most complex, "says the plan.

[xav]

I do find it interesting how the French navy looks at what capabilities its platforms need. They appear to have decided that a CIWS like Phalanx is not needed

Like the Italian Navy, Marine Nationale relies on powerful jammers (they actually share the same jammers on FREMM and Horizon class). Wether that is enough is up to debate... but a couple of EW folks told me these jammers are quite top of the line and more effective / powerful than early SEWIP or equivalents fitted aboard other NATO surface combatants.
But keep in mind that EW is probably one of the most complex topic (as a whole) to cover as a reporter because
- Virtually NO ONE will talk to you (in details) about it
- If you are not an engineer, good luck wrapping your head around just 20% of what experts are trying to explain to you
- That being said, threats/missiles are getting smarter too, and the latest tech knows how to "ignore and by pass tons of powerful jamming in one specific sector" (which is what the jammers aboard the above mentionned classes of ships apprently do or used to do)

and that the use of ships to provide NGFS is no longer valid as they have opted for OTO76mm on their platforms.

There was actually a debate within the French Navy about procuring 127mm / 5 inch for the future FTI frigate following the experience of the Libya campaign where many crew members complained about the limitations of 76mm:
- Its limited range forces the vessel to get closer (within visual range) to the coast line
- Its lethality is sup standard for land attack

There were (and as far as I know there still is) a number of 127mm "advocates" among French Navy officers (as well as the smart guided ammunition that go with them).

Both BAE Systems and Oto Melara actively pitched they large caliber guns... with no luch so far...

The next window of opportunity could be the FREMM mid life upgrade program but I am not holding my breath. FREMMs are brand new (and still being commissioned). By the time they need a "mid life upgrade" the cool new thing will be laser or railgun weapons... and as usual there will be no money for it

[PapaGolf]

Xav, did the french Navy carry out any NGFS in Libya? Or anyone else other than the RN, for that matter?

[Lord Jim]

Xav.
Thanks for the information, especially on the jammers. I do wonder what happens when an opponent has a home on jamming seeker on a number of his missiles mixed in with others? The Italians get around it by having their OTO76ss being able to operate in the CIWS role, which I do not believe the French Navy version ahs the same capability.

Regarding NGFS, was the train of thought in the French Navy that SCALP would negate the need for the former?

[xav]

Xav, did the french Navy carry out any NGFS in Libya? Or anyone else other than the RN, for that matter?

as I said:
There was actually a debate within the French Navy about procuring 127mm / 5 inch for the future FTI frigate following the experience of the Libya campaign where many crew members complained about the limitations of 76mm:
- Its limited range forces the vessel to get closer (within visual range) to the coast line
- Its lethality is sup standard for land attack

The above limitation surfaced following NGFS conducted by the MN with both 76mm and 100mm.
Unsurprisingly the larger gun was said to be better at NGFS... but that caliber is on its way out.

[PapaGolf]

The above limitation surfaced following NGFS conducted by the MN with both 76mm and 100mm.
Unsurprisingly the larger gun was said to be better at NGFS... but that caliber is on its way out.

Thanks Xav. Tried searching for Marine Nationale NGFS in google but nothing came up.

[ArmChairCivvy]

100mm.
Unsurprisingly the larger gun was said to be better at NGFS... but that caliber is on its way out.

Same thing in the Russian navy... a long time ago the 100 mm direct fire gun came off the ships... onto their T-XX tanks
- wonder if China has come to the same conclusion? Go big (min. 130 mm), or go small ... or go home They were using the 100 mm en-masse

[RetroSicotte]

The above limitation surfaced following NGFS conducted by the MN with both 76mm and 100mm.
Unsurprisingly the larger gun was said to be better at NGFS... but that caliber is on its way out.

Thanks Xav. Tried searching for Marine Nationale NGFS in google but nothing came up.

Most I could find.

https://sldinfo.com/2011/10/the-libyan- ... rspective/

" On one hand, the frigates provided gunfire support with their 100-mm guns for the operation of the helos off of the amphibious ships. "