Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (1998-2018) (ex RN)

[R686]

Just scrap her, she's an 'old' rustbucket built to commerical standards thats reached her 20 year design life. The RN has disposed and scrapped far more valuable and servicable assets than Ocean in recent years.

have you seen a survey report on her materiel condition?

just because she had a planned service life within the RN doesn't mean others cannot breath new life into her, I seem to remember other ships UK built to commercial standards as they were deemed expendable and had a planned service life of less than 5 years, a majority of the fleet built served for an average of 30 years.

so if another can justify the expense of additional refits why scrap if you cant afford a new build, economic life has different meanings between modern navies across the world.



Oh and by the way, if id had been AU PM at the time I would have leased Ark Royal as an interim amphibious warfare vessel along with 2x sets of crew and 2x Squadrons of Harrier until the LHD came along, what a wonderful way of enticing new members to life in the RAN

[S M H]

Just scrap her, she's an 'old' rustbucket built to commerical standards thats reached her 20 year design life. The RN has disposed and scrapped far more valuable and servicable assets than Ocean in recent years.

I saw Ocean while fitting out at Barrow in Furness. The hull was based on the CVS hulls though the spacing and construction of the hull ribs and stringers were considerably less robust. I had been aboard the two CVS when being built on the Tyne. There is the use on-board of commercial equipment rather than the military specification equipment. I suspect that it is cost replacing the commercial equipment now at its life expectancy is real issue. Regarding extending Oceans service. This is compounded with personnel levels in the navy to crew her. We could refit it abroad for the same cost that a prospective purchaser is planning. Unless we reclassify Ocean as a R F A. it will not be possible. As warship refits are U K only contracts. The cost of keeping he operational will only increase as she ages. With the navy no longer mothballing ships as a strategic reserve to cover a emergency while one carrier is unavadeble. Ocean will be put up for disposal once decommissioned.

[shark bait]

Cant send her off to the RFA either because all RFA cabins have windows, I suspect that cant be added to Ocean.

[SKB]

[SKB]

[Caribbean]

Interesting photo in the link re: Lt Cdr Eric ‘Winkle’ Brown RNVR andthe first ever Carrier deck landing and take off by a jet aircraft. I honestly hadn't realised how small the Sea Vampire was.

[ArmChairCivvy]

if id had been AU PM at the time I would have leased Ark Royal as an interim amphibious warfare vessel along with 2x sets of crew [...] what a wonderful way of enticing new members to life in the RAN

Well, whoever it was did a near thing to that:
- ran a recruitment campaign for submarine engineers (and crew?), with RN's consent, at the time when we were into the abysmal 2010 'dog's dinner' cuts

[ArmChairCivvy]

The hull was based on the CVS hulls though the spacing and construction of the hull ribs and stringers were considerably less robust. I had been aboard the two CVS when being built on the Tyne.

Been wondering how she came in that quick and at a good price, too.
- of course only part of the explanation

[R686]

HMS Ocean returns from final deployment as commissioned Royal Navy ship


No great fanfare on here about HMS Ocean return from her final operational cruise, Wonder when the de-commissioning ceremony is to take place.

https://navaltoday.com/2017/12/20/hms-o ... navy-ship/

[Repulse]

Seems to be a bit of a quiet push to get Ocean decommissioned and ready for sale.

[KyleG]

Brazil has now confirmed the purchase of British helicopter carrier HMS Ocean.

We were informed by a source in the Brazilian defence community that the vessel has been sold for £84 million.

Roberto Lopes has informed us that the purchase of HMS Ocean by the Brazilian Navy was confirmed within the last week by Brazilian Defence Minister Raul Jungmann.

We understand the first group of four Brazilian officers will head to the UK within the next few weeks.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/brazil- ... ign=social

[donald_of_tokyo]

Losing Ocean is direct result of getting 2 QECV.

Four 20000t flat tops (3 Invincibles and 1 Ocean) replaced with 2 65000t flat tops are fair trade, sorry to say. Integrated hangar size is larger, deck size is much more larger. I know it is better to have separate strike carrier and LPH, but UK simply do not have that money/man-power and will have (in many cases) a single asset to do BOTH carrier strike AND LPH. It is surely doable, albeit with less effectiveness.

By the way, how can RN use this 84M GBP? I think this money can provide 90 Harpoon Block II+ with electronics, to equip T45 and T23.

[Repulse]

£84m... should be spent on a buying back the two lost Points and equipping them with davits for LCVPs.

[Jake1992]

It's a shame we can't get the 4th bay class back.

Does anyone know what's included in the ocean sale, are the phalanx, LCVPs, artisan radar or even the speicle paint that's used on the hull ( as I know that was taken off the invincebles before being sold ) ??

[Ron5]

Not enough to buy even one F-35. Petty cash that will just disappear in some rounding error.

Second hand warships are not worth much which is why the NSS idea to sell ships on after a decade or two will quietly be forgotten.

[ArmChairCivvy]

£84m... should be spent on a buying back the two lost Points and equipping them with davits for LCVPs.

TD is pushing a much better idea... quick! Before the cash disappears

[serge750]

How long would £84m last to help keep Albion or Bulwark being retained for the RN ?

[Gabriele]

Some 4 years or more.

[ArmChairCivvy]

In the ball park, if you count the cost of the one in reserve as zero, and do all these exclusions:

The average annual costs of operating do not include:­

a. Maritime Domain Maintenance Costs

b. Central Allowances- Appointing Drafting and Leave (allowances), Continuity of Education Allowance etc

c. Overheads for common services

d. Support costs for Naval Bases

e. Support costs from other MoD Top Level Budget areas

f. Central costs i.e. IT and Communications

g. Aircraft costs

h. Training and force generation costs

In £ million, per annum, for individual ships or individual ships in the class.
LPD Albion Class 23.975

That makes 2 frigates or 6 of the home-waters type Rivers.

[serge750]

Thanks Liger, to my mind it seems obvious !!! maybe thats why the tweet from the first sea lord seemed to imply Albion would be around for a while (fingers crossed) & operating with the Indians later this year?

[ArmChairCivvy]

operating with the Indians later this year?

As we have fewer and fewer ships, we reach further out?
- anything more on the nature of this "jointness"?

[R686]

Brazil has now confirmed the purchase of British helicopter carrier HMS Ocean.

We were informed by a source in the Brazilian defence community that the vessel has been sold for £84 million.

Roberto Lopes has informed us that the purchase of HMS Ocean by the Brazilian Navy was confirmed within the last week by Brazilian Defence Minister Raul Jungmann.

We understand the first group of four Brazilian officers will head to the UK within the next few weeks.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/brazil- ... ign=social

WOW didn't we grab a barging with Largs Bay, £64m for a 8 year old ship and they paid £84m for a 23 year old girl.

Wonder if she will stay in the UK for any Brazilian mods and a new paint job as well

[topman]

The money doesn't go straight to the rn, or any service that has a piece of their equipment sold. Its handled through the disposal agency (DESA). IIRC it goes back to the mod to be respent but not automatically with the service that used that bit of kit.
Desa sell everything surplus bar housing stock.

[benny14]

An MOD spokesperson said: “Discussions with Brazil over the long-planned sale of HMS Ocean are at an advanced stage, but no final decisions have been made. HMS Ocean has served admirably with us since 1998 and the revenue she generates will be reinvested in defence as we bolster our Royal Navy with two types of brand new frigates and two huge aircraft carriers.”

[R686]

Losing Ocean is direct result of getting 2 QECV.

No it wasn't the Ocean only had a planned shelf life of 20 years

Four 20000t flat tops (3 Invincibles and 1 Ocean) replaced with 2 65000t flat tops are fair trade, sorry to say. Integrated hangar size is larger, deck size is much more larger. I know it is better to have separate strike carrier and LPH, but UK simply do not have that money/man-power and will have (in many cases) a single asset to do BOTH carrier strike AND LPH. It is surely doable, albeit with less effectiveness.

Nope don't think that at all, the chances of both CV operating together under this government are about 3/5ths of fu@k all.

Its a gain in size yes, its a gain in aircraft handling yes but not in aircraft numbers, but its at a loss in troop accommodation(Ocean up to 800,Invincables up to 500 each) its a loss in integrated landing craft its a loss in light and medium vehicle carrying and of loading/unloading capacity in theatre via the stern doors and ramp(wasn't large but useful) and a ro-ro doors for port loading/unloading when available.

lets look at what 1x Invincible and Ocean brings to the table compared to 1x QE shall we,

The QE to provide 10 spots for simultaneous helicopter operations with indications of a TAG consisting of around 12x F35B 3x Chinooks 12x Merlins 8x Apache and 6x Wildcats, for about 250/300 CDO's but in doing so you just stopped fast jet operations. No vehicle lift capacity unless as underslung loads via Chinook and 2x personal transfer boats

Invincible has up to 18 fast jets available(10 ready on the deck) and ASW/AEW rotary aircraft for a mixture of CAS fleet protection whilst Ocean can provide 6 spots has up to 18 rotary aircraft available for about 800 CDO's and with no loss of concurrent fast jet capability (2x mobile airfields) also has 4x LCVP MK5 to give a company lift or light vehicle

Whilst I agree the QE bring better bang for a strike carrier but as a CDO carrier it leaves a lot to be desired, also in the manning maintenance a single carrier beats 2 flattops

In capability wise id say it would have been better to build 2x improve Invincible class along with improved Oceans or mixed them into one like a LHD perhaps