F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

[Opinion3]

Why wouldn't we want to buy all 138? I thought it would be interesting to compare this against the actual number of delivered Tornados 385, Hawk 126, Jaguar 200, Typhoon 160, Harrier 90 ......

Some jets will get lost to damage or war, some to instrumentation, testing etc. I realise the numbers are much lower than in the cold war days, but what else are the factories going to build? Given the time-frame of deliveries is decades, it would be slightly surprising to be expecting these numbers to fall at this stage.

[Defiance]

Bae's contribution to the aircraft's electronic systems is very significant but that's been provided by Bae USA and not Bae UK.

BAES UK is lead design authority for the fuel system & crew escape and life support across all variants. BAES UK also conducts work on PHM and also works on ALIS. See the nice chart at the link below.

http://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/product/f-35

BTDT.

[sunstersun]

[seaspear]

It has been reported that the f35 operated by Norway has been sending the data it acquires back to the U.S e.g. how the pilots of the plane flew it , this could be very interesting . Norway did not apparently know this was to happen .

[R686]

It has been reported that the f35 operated by Norway has been sending the data it acquires back to the U.S e.g. how the pilots of the plane flew it , this could be very interesting . Norway did not apparently know this was to happen .

yep you would think this would come under individuals nations operational security protocols.

[seaspear]

Would modifications to the f35 also then be detailed to the manufacturer ?

[R686]

Would modifications to the f35 also then be detailed to the manufacturer ?

that would depend on the type of modification, any structural mods would most certainty have to thru OEM

[Little J]

Wondering if Israel knows about this? They may like letting the septics buy them stuff, but I can't imagine that they tell them how or who they use them on.

[ArmChairCivvy]

[quote="R686"] individuals nations operational security protocols.[/quote Looks like LM is unwilling or not able to deliver such data filters so Norway, together with Italy, are starting their own project
- w/o access to the code... hmmm
- Israel, of course is a different story: even if they do not touch the generating code, they have access to the gateways (what come out)

[seaspear]

That may make it more interesting in the I.D.F case as there are a number of changes to the technology added and would L.M pick up access to this different tech.

[sunstersun]

[SDL]

bloody good shot.

[Smokey]

bloody good shot.

Of a Koninklijke Luchtmacht (RNLAF) F35A.

[Spinflight]

Why wouldn't we want to buy all 138? I thought it would be interesting to compare this against the actual number of delivered Tornados 385, Hawk 126, Jaguar 200, Typhoon 160, Harrier 90 ......

Because we can't afford them. Nothing complicated about it..

Inter service rivalry and politics as ever. Whilst the through costs of A or B variants is going to be very similar the RAF reckon they can screw more A models than B simply because the sticker price is lower.

Hence it is no longer a case of will they buy A's but one of how few B's they can wangle to maximise their A's. There's problems here though, and not of the logical capability kind.

The USMC has helped us out greatly with the B and the RAf figures they'll just make up the numbers on the carrier anyway with any bad feeling being the Navy's problem. Some of the ways they've helped us out though do have significant monetary values which effectively puts a hard floor on the number that can be ordered.

But we've ordered 48 already? Yeah, don't get too excited though as this is 'being revised' and will probably end up between 36 and 40 depending how you do your sums.

As I say the only consideration being given is treading a tightrope on how much the USMC can be needled.

Gotta love the crabs...

[90inFIRST]

Think you have missed the point, we wont buy all 138 because there is no money to buy them anymore plus the £-$ exchange rate has made individual aircraft much more expensive which ever model they are. 48 aircraft might well be the lot and there will only be B models. In the very unlikely event of the the RAF getting more aircraft it will be Eurofighter and IF that happened they would replace tranche 1 frames.

[Little J]

So there's the easy fix...

The Ministry : So you don't want the F-35B?
Crab : No Sir
The Ministry : OK, the Navy can have all the B's we can afford.
Crab : So how many A's will we get?
The Ministry : A's? No you can have a few extra Tiffies instead.

[RetroSicotte]

So there's the easy fix...

The Ministry : So you don't want the F-35B?
Crab : No Sir
The Ministry : OK, the Navy can have all the B's we can afford.
Crab : So how many A's will we get?
The Ministry : A's? No you can have a few extra Tiffies instead.

Navy gets around 80 F-35 owned solely by the FAA while the RAF gets another 48 Tranche 3 Typhoons, Protector and ownership of the FCAS?

Could be worse, honestly, if it permitted a faster build into retaining combat jet numbers from hitting the scarily low numbers they're currently scheduled to end up at in.

[shark bait]

That's a better outcome than a split F35 purchase, plenty of life left to exploit in Typhoon.

[R686]

So there's the easy fix...

The Ministry : So you don't want the F-35B?
Crab : No Sir
The Ministry : OK, the Navy can have all the B's we can afford.
Crab : So how many A's will we get?
The Ministry : A's? No you can have a few extra Tiffies instead.

Navy gets around 80 F-35 owned solely by the FAA while the RAF gets another 48 Tranche 3 Typhoons, Protector and ownership of the FCAS?

Could be worse, honestly, if it permitted a faster build into retaining combat jet numbers from hitting the scarily low numbers they're currently scheduled to end up at in.

I think the idea has merit, but.........can both service man the aircraft. As the B's in RAF service are technically a new capabilty (belatedly replacing Harrier from how long ago?)

[sunstersun]

just curious, if the UK went with the C variant and catapults wouldn't there have had to be a split buy anyways? Make's no sense to operate C's from land.

[sunstersun]

66 F-35B's for the navy, the rest A's for the airforce?

would 5 squadrons be enough to operate 2 carriers in emergencies? probably would need USMC help, but that's nothing new. sadly i'm accepting this split buy as fact now.


ugh, crunched the numbers and factoring in training, it's probably not enough.

[bobp]

bloody good shot.

Makes a nice wallpaper.

[Opinion3]

Because we can't afford them. Nothing complicated about it..

I am not sure I agree with you. We cannot afford not to buy them!

The world is not a safer place and our ability to design and manufacture the tools to defend ourselves has diminished as much as the means to defend ourselves. If we do not order these planes are we going to shut down our Military Industrial capacity? The point about technology overcoming an adversary is often made, but unlike the F117 and B2 this technology being used in the F35 is not being locked away in Skunk-works. Indeed the US is very worried about Turkey, and the Middle East countries allowing Russia to gain access to the means to defeat the technology. China, in true Chinese style have copied them already.

We need to sort our the country's finances but in truth the issue is twofold. Firstly our tax system is too complicated and not fair. The Government is unable to collect the revenue in a fair fashion. It could do a flat rate tax for everyone like Estonia (for all taxes and all payers). Secondly we have turned into an entitlement society. Clearly this is turning political, sorry, but the point is unlike many things the Government spends its money on, the individual or business cannot and should not be covering the cost of their own private army/air force etc. The Government must ensure this together with the imposition and collection of taxes is carried out.

Can we afford effective war planes? Yes

[seaspear]

The f35 procurement program is over a number of years , the pound may go up or down , the unit costs though have been reducing and would likely be markedly lower than a Eurofighter

[Spinflight]

I am not sure I agree with you. We cannot afford not to buy them!

Maybe I didn't make it clear.. In my opinion a split buy is madness. Reducing the currently ordered number of B's ( 48 ) nigh on enemy action. Tiffies instead of B's ( not sure where this has come from) doolally.

I wasn't stating my opinion on what was right, merely saying what is happening.