Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[SKB]

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[R686]

They could, one day, but it is not currently in their plans. Like the ski jump addition, it might invade the CVN field too much for the USN to allow them to do it.

But perhaps, if they see it working well for the RAF and RN, they will join along the way.

From past musing of DesertSwo he alluded to the gator as being primary rotary asset, fixed wing secondary. Ski jump will mean one less spot on the flight deck tramway.

[Gabriele]

Arguably, the lost spot would be kind of regained thanks to the shorter take off run for the jets leaving more space available towards the stern. It is kind of an open secret that the "lost helo spot" is a fig leaf.

[Ninetyfifth]

That's a great phot SKB. TVM for posting.

[Ron5]

Personally I'd be surprised if SRVL becomes SOP. Too many risks for too little return. Probably just reserved for hot and heavy, real ops. As always, happy to be proven wrong.

As for ski jumps on LPH, back in CVF land they're still working on finding extra helo spots for their LPH role

[SKB]

Maybe if the USN started storing their aircraft down in the hangar (like the RN does) instead of up on the flightdeck, then there would be more flightdeck space free for more landing spots?

Simple logic really.

[swoop]

I imagine the main issue on a gator srvl is the width of the flight deck. QE has lots of built in safety margin in this area.

[Halidon]

Arguably, the lost spot would be kind of regained thanks to the shorter take off run for the jets leaving more space available towards the stern. It is kind of an open secret that the "lost helo spot" is a fig leaf.

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. The size of the fixed-wing takeoff run is way, way down the list of things which determine the size of USN amphibious assault ships. The deck is sized as it is to support the amount of airlift the Marines need and there are as many landing spots as can be safely crammed onto it. If you put a ramp on a Wasp or America-class, you'd have to delete one of the nine landing spots, and the takeoff run of the Harriers/F-35Bs being any different would have no effect on that deletion. Worse it would be one of the six port landing spots, which are those most often used (the three spots on starboard are more often used to park or service aircraft during flight ops, facilitating sortie rates).

Maybe if the USN started storing their aircraft down in the hangar (like the RN does) instead of up on the flightdeck, then there would be more flightdeck space free for more landing spots?

Simple logic really.

The landing spots on a Wasp/America deck already cover the usable real estate. The only way we're getting more spots from them is to cut down the island (probably happening for LHA-8) and/or juggle the elevators around.

[Ron5]

Maybe if the USN started storing their aircraft down in the hangar (like the RN does) instead of up on the flightdeck, then there would be more flightdeck space free for more landing spots?

Simple logic really.

Wow. You're kinda behind the times. That's a pre-WW2 discussion.

[Geoff_B]

I think we should wait till the 2020s to discuss USMC plans, we may still find them as regular visitors on the QECs as we work up the carriers, from our point we can see how the CV-22 works in the F-35 support role as COD and/or Tanker.
From the USMC aspect they can experience operating the F-35B on a carrier optimised for them with ample deck parks, separate runway with ski jump and SRVL complete with Bedford array lighting and a separate VTOL landing spots. They will be able to compare with use on the Wasps and the America's to gauge the benefits to give a real picture of F-35 operations at sea.

I have a feeling they would love to load up a QEC and add to a gator group and do an offensive exercise without the benefit of a CVN at hand to gauge if they can do an independent operation and use the F-35B in numbers to provide CAP, deep strike and CAS.

However its speculation for the future, at present the third sea trials are due on USS America if I'm not mistaken and this time they are looking for rougher weather rather than a flat millpond. This should pave the way for the USMC to do their first tour on board ship when we start to get the real operational data needed for deploying the F-35B at sea.

[Old RN]

Just a thought. If I look at the planned IOC of the F35C it appears that when QE comes into service, and given the ability of USMC F35B to operate from her, she will be the most combat effective carrier in the world. (Given an F35B can lift more ordnance further thsn an F18E!)

[R686]

Arguably, the lost spot would be kind of regained thanks to the shorter take off run for the jets leaving more space available towards the stern. It is kind of an open secret that the "lost helo spot" is a fig leaf.

sorry missed this thread for a couple of day's

You lost me on that one, if the ski jump encroaches into the area currently used for flight ops how does the shorter take off distance regain a spot when fixed wing and rotary operations are not done concurrently?

I suppose you could in theory condense the spots for the smaller rotary aircraft but may not be practical for the larger aircraft such as MV-22/CH-53K which needs more room especially if they want to keep 6 useable spots on the tramway.

(should have read all the post's after the one I was replying to Halidon pipped in as well)

Edit
A ramp would eliminate at least the fore-most take-off/landing spot, and perhaps the second one as well.

Also, the presence of the ramp would make moving helicopters into/out of the forward parking spots much more difficult. It would require parking them at more of an angle, which would reduce the number that could be parked there as well as reducing the number.

USS_Wasp_(LHD_1).jpg

[R686]

I have a feeling they would love to load up a QEC and add to a gator group and do an offensive exercise without the benefit of a CVN at hand to gauge if they can do an independent operation and use the F-35B in numbers to provide CAP, deep strike and CAS.

Can only speculate but that's what LHA6/7(USS Bataan harrier carrier Iraq) would be for, if any troops need to be airlifted from LHA lily pad ops from one of the LHD might be the order of the day

[Aethulwulf]

Just a thought. If I look at the planned IOC of the F35C it appears that when QE comes into service, and given the ability of USMC F35B to operate from her, she will be the most combat effective carrier in the world. (Given an F35B can lift more ordnance further thsn an F18E!)

I believe the first operational deployment of QE is set for 2021. By this date I think the UK will still only have one operational squadron of F35b. The USMC could provide extra F35b squadrons, which could allow QE to generate impressive strike sorties.
However, until the new FSS ships are in service (2025?), the QE will be restricted in the number of sorties that can be sustained over an extended period.

[Old RN]

From the apparent results of Red Flag even 1 squadron of F35Bs would be the most potent ship deployed airgroup in the world!

[ArmChairCivvy]

Admiral Z was advertising the Qinetic study on the workability of 10 helo spots on the QE (when in all rotary aviation mode). So far have not seen any confirmation of the result, RE
"If you put a ramp on a Wasp or America-class, you'd have to delete one of the nine landing spots".

The real estate available on the QEs will make it possible to (at least) recover F35B's while in that mode; I guess only 2021 will tell if mixed air ops, in a wider sense, can become a reality. Operational research as such is a good indicator, but only real life trials can tell for sure.

[Geoff_B]

I have a feeling they would love to load up a QEC and add to a gator group and do an offensive exercise without the benefit of a CVN at hand to gauge if they can do an independent operation and use the F-35B in numbers to provide CAP, deep strike and CAS.

Can only speculate but that's what LHA6/7(USS Bataan harrier carrier Iraq) would be for, if any troops need to be airlifted from LHA lily pad ops from one of the LHD might be the order of the day

Ah but they can only operate 20 F-35B due to them being somewhat larger than the Harrier and they need 24 to maintain the full scope of Air ops. A USMC General discussed this in Flight last year, which is why I got the impression they would love to test the theory out using the QEC .

Plus the Americas are actually tailored to operating more V-22 and CH-53s for the Air Lift than Harrier Carrier

[Ron5]

Pretty sure I read that even when in amphib mode, the RN would like the QE's to carry 12 F-35's. Maybe in the glossy QE launch booklet.

The accompanying QE would carry the other 3 squadrons.

[R686]

Ah but they can only operate 20 F-35B due to them being somewhat larger than the Harrier and they need 24 to maintain the full scope of Air ops. A USMC General discussed this in Flight last year, which is why I got the impression they would love to test the theory out using the QEC .

Would you still happen to have a link to that article, missed that one.

I would imagine that a gator in sea control set up would still be at a disadvantage irrespective of the 4x less aircraft unless they had help from a USAF E3 Sentry ( no E2 as that would mean the presence of a CVN nearby and defeats the reason of the pocket carrier)

But then the US/UK will undoubtly want to test the full operating capabilty of CVF, no secret they want you to relive US CBG if needed towards a pivot to SEA. It's in there best interest's

Plus the Americas are actually tailored to operating more V-22 and CH-53s for the Air Lift than Harrier Carrier

Yes that's right they are still geared towards being Amphibous Assualt, just aviation enhanced, it's just that the USMC are getting F35B in amazing number's in theroy they can fill all the gators and fill 3 CVN with F35B

[GibMariner]

[inch]

does anybody know if and when there might be a public open day on the carrier when launched ,and how do you get a ticket or whatever it is to get to look around ? thanks

[bobp]

does anybody know if and when there might be a public open day on the carrier when launched ,and how do you get a ticket or whatever it is to get to look around ? thanks

Probably wont happen until its in RN service. My one visit was work related and the ship is so huge you would need several days in order to take it all in, as my visit was work related I saw very little apart from what I was there for, but standing on the deck looking up at the Ships radar is like looking at a block of flats, its huge.

[inch]

thanks anyway fella, looking forward to it sometime hopefully

[Aethulwulf]

There used to be Navy Days at HMNB Portsmouth when, over a weekend, parts of the base were made open to the public and you were able to tour a few of the ships in port. I think the last of these was in 2013 and, if so, I'm not sure if they have stopped for good. (Maybe they have been replaced by Armed Forces day events?) Back in 2013 it was possible to see round a T23, a T45 and RFA Argus.

Also, some times when a ship visits a port (particularly if it is in a city affiliated to the ship), it is made open to members of the public to tour the ship. For obvious reasons, ship movements and these port visits are not announced widely or much in advance. Also, this may not be very relevant for QECV, as she is too big for most UK ports. For example I think she may be too wide to fit through the Thames flood barrier.

[Repulse]

I went to the last one - I think it was 2010 before the SDSR canned them. Big shame and something that should be resurrected to allow the public to have a better understanding of the Navy. Even smaller navies still have them.