Aircraft with oversized guns:

[Tony Williams]

The NR-23 and AM-23 were two different gun designs, although they used basically the same ammo (slightly modified for the AM-23).

Other aircraft guns using the 23x115 ammo were the NS-23 (late WW2, replaced by the NR-23), the famous twin-barrel GSh-23, and the six-barrel GSh-6-23 which achieved over 9,000 rounds per minute (that's 150 rounds fired in one second).

[ArmChairCivvy]

the six-barrel GSh-6-23 which achieved over 9,000 rounds per minute (that's 150 rounds fired in one second).

Whoahh!
I thought the present day 23mm Mauser was a fast one.
- adjusted from fighter planes to the close-up defence of German "stabilization" frigates

[Tony Williams]

I thought the present day 23mm Mauser was a fast one.
- adjusted from fighter planes to the close-up defence of German "stabilization" frigates

I think you meant to type 27mm...

By the way, you might be interested in the pic below from my website, concerning post-WW2 aircraft gun ammo:



12.7x99 (.50 M3), 20X110 (Hispano, M3, M24), 20x102 (M39/M61), 20x110USN (Mk 11/Mk 12), 23x115 (NS-23, NR-23, AM-23, GSh-23, GSh-6-23), 25x137 (GAU-12/U), 27x145B (Mauser BK 27), 30x86B (Aden LV), 30x97B (DEFA 540), 30x113B (Aden-brass case; DEFA 550-steel case as shown), 30x150B (GIAT 30M791), 30x155B (NR-30), 30x165 (GSh-301, GSh-30, GSh-6-30), 30x173KCA (Oerlikon KCA), 30x173 (GAU-8/A), 37x155 (N-37, NN-37)

[ArmChairCivvy]

V interesting, thanks Tony. Two questions, if I may:

1. Which one of the GAU tank killer rounds is in the picture? (Borrowing from globalsecurity.org: "A typical combat load for the GAU-8 would include 1,100 rounds of 30mm high explosive or armor piercing ammunition. The 30mm API is mixed with 30mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) at the factory and is called Combat Mix Ammunition. The ratio of API to HEI rounds in the Combat Mix is 4:1. Combat mix is a sequential mixture of DU and HEI rounds in which 1 HEI round followed by 4 DU rounds are fired by the AN/GAU-8 gatling gun.")

2. Has the one on the extreme right been combined into the picture from another source as it matches the 173s in size, not the other 155 (further to the left)?

[Tony Williams]

1. Which one of the GAU tank killer rounds is in the picture? (Borrowing from globalsecurity.org: "A typical combat load for the GAU-8 would include 1,100 rounds of 30mm high explosive or armor piercing ammunition. The 30mm API is mixed with 30mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) at the factory and is called Combat Mix Ammunition. The ratio of API to HEI rounds in the Combat Mix is 4:1. Combat mix is a sequential mixture of DU and HEI rounds in which 1 HEI round followed by 4 DU rounds are fired by the AN/GAU-8 gatling gun.")

The 30x173, last but one on the right with the scarlet nose-cone, is the PGU-14 API with the DU core (mine is a display round and lacks the core). The PGU-13 HEI (not shown in this group) has a yellow projectile with a light-alloy fuze at the tip. Incidentally, the "Combat Mix" was as intended for its original anti-tank role: more recently it has been firing pretty well exclusively HEI, in the anti-personnel role in Afghanistan.

2. Has the one on the extreme right been combined into the picture from another source as it matches the 173s in size, not the other 155 (further to the left)?

No, the rounds were all lined up together and included in one photo. The "155" refers to the length of the cartridge case in mm, not to the overall length of the round. You can see that the case length of the 30x155B and the 37x155 (i.e. minus the projectile) is the same.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Did not check back as to whether this has been already covered:

No gun, afterall, in the Sea Vixen but these as a backup" two retractable packs under the fuselage that carried a total of 28 Microcell 2 inch (5.08 centimeter) folding-fin air rockets (FFARs). Along with the four pylons for the Firestreaks, there was a pylon under each wing for an external tank.

[...]

Early DH.110 concepts had envisioned four 20-millimeter Hispano cannon, or two Aden 30-millimeter revolver cannon, or even a 114-millimeter (4.5 inch) recoilless cannon that the British were infatuated with for a period of time. The big gun fired a proximity-fuzed shell and eliminated recoil by firing a counterweight out the back while the shell went out the front. "Countershot" guns had been considered by several nations since WWI, but they were never seriously used operationally. In the end, no cannon were fitted to the Sea Vixen. Deleting the cannon wasn't a good idea, since the whizzy guided missiles of the era would not turn out to be all that whizzy in actual combat."
http://www.airvectors.net/avvamp_3.html

The radar operator could have two-timed down in the "coal hole" and aimed the gun: http://www.airvectors.net/avvamp_3_11.jpg

[ArmChairCivvy]

Referred back to Tony's article (link at the bottom of p.1 here) and the top trumps out of those actually used was far smaller (than the 114mm): BK 7,5 (75 x 714R) .
- recoilless, though, and would not have had that much initial velocity (A2A, or what were they thinking of; sinking ships?)

[Spinflight]

A2a as I recall. Basically for taking down bombers.

The Aden was basically a late war German design. Very effective against ground targets but questionable against air. Saying that the model the raf used to determine effectiveness was pretty messed up.

The tsetse has always fascinated me. Able to hit a tank sized target from considerable distance and hit shipping from outside the range of the common lighter AAA. Seems it was quite expensive in terms of specialisation, where rockets could be strapped on to do the same job less effectively.

Still the Molins gun was a remarkably similar shell to the bofors 57mm of latter day fame.

Especially with the 3P Ammo, some very impressive tests of this on YouTube, I've always wondered why someone hasn't tried a gunship mounting. It probably has enough range to stay out of manpads range and would, I think, be particularly effective against dug in troops, technicals, bog hammers and all sorts of coin chicanery.

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[ArmChairCivvy]

Especially with the 3P Ammo [...] I've always wondered why someone hasn't tried a gunship mounting

If you are shooting from above, you can replace the 3P advantages with a high rate of fire (using much cheaper rounds). The 40 mm Bofors was the biggest gun on the gunships for a little while. They did not go for the modified howitzers, firing mortar rounds and by doing so saving airframe life - due to lower recoil, and the 105mm howitzer is now back

[Spinflight]

Maybe on a very steep angle. Which would mean being vulnerable.

With the 3p gubbins you could fire low, even from behind the feba, and still be able to target dug in troops or reverse slopes.

Rate of fire doesn't really help much. Even with airflow to cool them you'll still merrily melt barrels.

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[ArmChairCivvy]

on a very steep angle. Which would mean being vulnerable.

They are, doing their circles. Hence used only when intel says it is OK.

Rate of fire doesn't really help much. Even with airflow to cool them you'll still merrily melt barrels.

Bursts, of course. Putting real rounds onto the target(s), rather than shrapnel from overhead. Kevlar shields are not only used in riots, but artillery crews have them, too, so that digging in has the desired effect. The arty pieces are of rather solid metal, so they (normally) only enjoy side cover (from being dug in).