MBDA (UK)

Contains threads on equipment developed by the UK defence and aerospace industry, but not in service with the British Armed Forces.

zavve
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by zavve »

new guy wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 19:22 *[action]* zoom in on the different VLS *[/end.action]*
That picture is fascinating since it seems like it shows EXLS, I strongly suspected that the regular mushrooms would be fitted behind the bridge where Umkhonto was originally planned.

new guy
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Re: MBDA (UK)

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zavve wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 10:11
new guy wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 19:22 *[action]* zoom in on the different VLS *[/end.action]*
That picture is fascinating since it seems like it shows EXLS, I strongly suspected that the regular mushrooms would be fitted behind the bridge where Umkhonto was originally planned.
Apparently EXLS from what I have seen



I hoped It would be next gen CAMM VLS.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

new guy wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 19:22 *[action]* zoom in on the different VLS *[/end.action]*
It's 3 x standalone ExLS, for 9 cells total. With quadpacking that will be 36 missiles. With 5 Visby Class, test missiles and small number of reloads/spares its likely the Swedish Navy's order will be for at least 250 missiles. With more to come with the Lulea Class when it enters service in the 2030's (perhaps with CAMM-MR as well). The Lulea Class is the replacement concept for the Visby Generation 2 vessels.

There will need to be some work on the ExLS installation, but as Canada and the Saudi Navy will also be using this on the CSC and MMSC it needs to be done anyway.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Timmymagic wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 09:26
new guy wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 19:22 *[action]* zoom in on the different VLS *[/end.action]*
It's 3 x standalone ExLS, for 9 cells total. With quadpacking that will be 36 missiles. With 5 Visby Class, test missiles and small number of reloads/spares its likely the Swedish Navy's order will be for at least 250 missiles. With more to come with the Lulea Class when it enters service in the 2030's (perhaps with CAMM-MR as well). The Lulea Class is the replacement concept for the Visby Generation 2 vessels.

There will need to be some work on the ExLS installation, but as Canada and the Saudi Navy will also be using this on the CSC and MMSC it needs to be done anyway.
Yes, it is 3x3 ExLS.

Interesting what swedens take will be on CAMM vs ER vs MR.
+ ground air defence as well

Knowing swedes, they probably calculated :
Amount of refills needed based on ship survivability
+ Inital test amount
+ number of years until second order (Lulea class) x yearly expenditure ( yearly Test + one off fires for small incidents)
than all of that times the % in maintenance

As for ExLS, it is firmly in common now, with the Canadians, saudi's, Swedes, + poland and maybe UK for MK41.

It will be interesting with the Babcock + saab corvette deal, and whether that will be the Lulea class, the inspiration for it, or just a general design.
+ whether they will be constructed at roysth.

Also how close they will be to Visby 2.0, Pohjanmaa-class, e.c.t. or any of the ~100m ship designs in that range that both saab and babcock have had in recent years.
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zavve
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by zavve »

new guy wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 11:18 + whether they will be constructed at roysth.

Also how close they will be to Visby 2.0, Pohjanmaa-class, e.c.t. or any of the ~100m ship designs in that range that both saab and babcock have had in recent years.
The Luleå class will 100% not be constructed at Rosyth. The hull will probably be built overseas (I suspect in Poland but Rosyth is an option), but the integration and installation of weapons systems and sensors etc will be done by Saab in Karlskrona. The ship is also basically guaranteed to use the SLIM mast that the Pohjanmaa will use so it should look broadly comparable to Pohjanmaa-class.
Just speculating the Luleå is likely to be:
100-120M
2500+ tonnes
Saab SLIM mast (SG4A+SG1X)
RBS-15mk4 (8+)
Mk41 (or EXLS) with CAMM, ER, and MR.
Torped 47 (2+2)
Bofors 57mm mk3
9LV mk4
HMS & VDS+TASS
Hangar for 1 MH-60R or Hkp-14F (MH-60R is speculated to be replacing Hkp-14F)

new guy
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by new guy »

zavve wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 15:46
new guy wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 11:18 + whether they will be constructed at roysth.

Also how close they will be to Visby 2.0, Pohjanmaa-class, e.c.t. or any of the ~100m ship designs in that range that both saab and babcock have had in recent years.
The Luleå class will 100% not be constructed at Rosyth. The hull will probably be built overseas (I suspect in Poland but Rosyth is an option), but the integration and installation of weapons systems and sensors etc will be done by Saab in Karlskrona. The ship is also basically guaranteed to use the SLIM mast that the Pohjanmaa will use so it should look broadly comparable to Pohjanmaa-class.
Just speculating the Luleå is likely to be:
100-120M
2500+ tonnes
Saab SLIM mast (SG4A+SG1X)
RBS-15mk4 (8+)
Mk41 (or EXLS) with CAMM, ER, and MR.
Torped 47 (2+2)
Bofors 57mm mk3
9LV mk4
HMS & VDS+TASS
Hangar for 1 MH-60R or Hkp-14F (MH-60R is speculated to be replacing Hkp-14F)
Thats what I meant, hull construction in rosyth, hull fitout in karlskrona.
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Ian Hall
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Ian Hall »

Not quite sure if we've seen such an export success as is CAMM for many decades.
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Ian Hall
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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Ian Hall wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 22:08 Not quite sure if we've seen such an export success as is CAMM for many decades.
It seems to have hit a sweet spot in the market, like Hawk or CVRT
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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Looks like an order from the Spanish Air Force for Spear is on the way...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Timmymagic wrote: 11 Apr 2024, 12:11 Looks like an order from the Spanish Air Force for Spear is on the way...
I never really mentioned this before....but if Spear is being sold to Spain it means it is getting integrated on Typhoon...as Spain does not operate F-35...

People often ask about this...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Jdam »

Well the Typhoon was the test platform for the weapon so I guess using it on the Typhoon shouldn't be that much of a challenge. Also its not like we are getting block 4 software any time soon to use the Spear missile with the F-35, so we need something to carry it.

What is the latest on spear? it all went quite after the proposed test firings.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by downsizer »

First Meteor firing from KF21 today, and the first firing of the cropped fin version.



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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Looks like we have a new Spear variant....

Land Precision Strike appears to have gone from a Brimstone/CAMM mashup....to ground launched Spear

Only its twice as long.....Spear-LR/XR appears to have arrived...they'd be insane not to make an air launched variant (minus booster) would have thought 250nm+ range would be doable...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Confirmation of German order for Brimstone 3. Initially 274 live munitions, and around 100 test missiles, but with a ceiling of 3266 missiles...looks like MBDA will need that Brimstone line they're building....

Suspect that like Spain appear to be doing this will clearly send Germany on a path to Spear as well...


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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Little J »

Wonder if they will look at integrating it on their other platforms (UAV's, Helicopters, etc)...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Little J wrote: 27 Jun 2024, 11:39 Wonder if they will look at integrating it on their other platforms (UAV's, Helicopters, etc)...
Wouldn't be surprised...French are looking at it for Tigre, Germany may for the H145M that are replacing Tiger as PARS 3 integration would be ridiculous.
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Little J »

Maybe they can embarrass our lot into doing some common sense thinking then :thumbup:
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Pte. James Frazer
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Pte. James Frazer »

Maybe it's an overspec on range for the Apache target acquisition and designators? Brimstone 2/3 are believed to have 40km+ range from rotary.

If that platform is flying 'nap of the earth' then detection range is horizon limited, if no 3rd party intel/designation..might kinda operationally negate the range benefits over JAGM?

Ignoring sovereign industrial mass and supply resilience, whether us Brits got suckered by LM over those arguments and the integration cost argument is....?

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Pte. James Frazer wrote: 27 Jun 2024, 19:10 Maybe it's an overspec on range for the Apache target acquisition and designators? Brimstone 2/3 are believed to have 40km+ range from rotary.

If that platform is flying 'nap of the earth' then detection range is horizon limited, if no 3rd party intel/designation..might kinda operationally negate the range benefits over JAGM?

Ignoring sovereign industrial mass and supply resilience, whether us Brits got suckered by LM over those arguments and the integration cost argument is....?

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Integration costs were quoted as c£50m at one point....chump change in the grand scheme of things. With Brimstone costing 1/2 of what JAGM is currently selling at...

To be honest the costs on some US guided weapons are ludicrous at present. Javelin in its F/G model is $208,000 per missile....apparently MMP is well under that price...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by downsizer »

Maybe the integration work that was carried out didn't go very well...... :problem:

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