Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
52
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
14
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
127
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
22
4%
A modernised Type 23
24
5%
A Type 26-lite
71
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
4%
5 hulls
71
14%
More than 5 hulls
102
20%
 
Total votes: 505

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 02 Feb 2024, 18:21
Agreed that RN T31 (as is) is NOT getting Mk41 VLS.
BAE Systems gave Lockheed Martin the contract to equip the Type 26's in March 2018, 4 years before the ships even launched. We have seen no additional foreign military sales requests and no contracts to LM for more Mk41, HMS Venturer is to be launched later on this year.

I think we can all see where this is going.

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

Jdam wrote:-
BAE Systems gave Lockheed Martin the contract to equip the Type 26's in March 2018, 4 years before the ships even launched.
Correction 4 years before the first ship launched.
We have seen no additional foreign military sales requests and no contracts to LM for more Mk41, HMS Venturer is to be launched later on this year.

I think we can all see where this is going.
Can we?

There is plenty of time to acquire more Mk41 for T26 hulls 5 to 8, if some of the original order was to be re-purposed. :idea:

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

Oh you sweet summer child :)

The last time I gave the MOD the benefit of the doubt on this board it lasted about 2 reply. ;)
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tomuk
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Scimitar54 wrote: 03 Feb 2024, 16:03 Jdam wrote:-
BAE Systems gave Lockheed Martin the contract to equip the Type 26's in March 2018, 4 years before the ships even launched.
Correction 4 years before the first ship launched.
We have seen no additional foreign military sales requests and no contracts to LM for more Mk41, HMS Venturer is to be launched later on this year.

I think we can all see where this is going.
Can we?

There is plenty of time to acquire more Mk41 for T26 hulls 5 to 8, if some of the original order was to be re-purposed. :idea:
What has the launch of HMS Glasgow got to do with Mk41? When she was launched and towed back for fitting out her deck was solid with no hole for any of the VLS yet.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

tomuk wrote: 06 Feb 2024, 06:21
Scimitar54 wrote: 03 Feb 2024, 16:03 Jdam wrote:-
BAE Systems gave Lockheed Martin the contract to equip the Type 26's in March 2018, 4 years before the ships even launched.
Correction 4 years before the first ship launched.
We have seen no additional foreign military sales requests and no contracts to LM for more Mk41, HMS Venturer is to be launched later on this year.

I think we can all see where this is going.
Can we?

There is plenty of time to acquire more Mk41 for T26 hulls 5 to 8, if some of the original order was to be re-purposed. :idea:
What has the launch of HMS Glasgow got to do with Mk41? When she was launched and towed back for fitting out her deck was solid with no hole for any of the VLS yet.
He's talking abut lead time.

tomuk
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Ron5 wrote: 06 Feb 2024, 14:16
tomuk wrote: 06 Feb 2024, 06:21
Scimitar54 wrote: 03 Feb 2024, 16:03 Jdam wrote:-
BAE Systems gave Lockheed Martin the contract to equip the Type 26's in March 2018, 4 years before the ships even launched.
Correction 4 years before the first ship launched.
We have seen no additional foreign military sales requests and no contracts to LM for more Mk41, HMS Venturer is to be launched later on this year.

I think we can all see where this is going.
Can we?

There is plenty of time to acquire more Mk41 for T26 hulls 5 to 8, if some of the original order was to be re-purposed. :idea:
What has the launch of HMS Glasgow got to do with Mk41? When she was launched and towed back for fitting out her deck was solid with no hole for any of the VLS yet.
He's talking abut lead time.
Yes that was obvious the point being Mk41 want fitted to Glasgow when she left Govan

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Update on T31 progress.



Looks like it’s going to be a push to get Venturer in the water before the summer.
IMG_1491.jpeg
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Repulse
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

How much more money was handed over or future promises made I wonder.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Repulse wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 13:07 How much more money was handed over or future promises made I wonder.
Shhhh state secret :roll:

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jackstar »

Weight expectations: new frigate HMS Venturer takes to hi-tech ‘scales’
You can’t put that on a weighing scales.
No, but it’s still possible to precisely weigh one of the Royal Navy’s next-generation frigates to ensure weight estimates during design are validated.

HMS Venturer is the first of five Inspiration-class frigates and just shy of two years since she was laid down the warship reached a milestone in her construction.
Here comes the science bit:

Throughout the design of a ship, the weight is estimated by naval architects, who take into account a raft of considerations: weight of materials such as the steel in the hull, the equipment and engineering and systems installed (engines, shafts, pipes, computers, wiring, weapons), consumables (food and stores), fuel and even the ship’s company.
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ech-scales

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

say their dispute with the MoD over costs for Type 31 Frigate programme has been resolved. (Details subject to NDA)
The is a bit worrying, the main benefit of the program is that we were getting 5 ships for 1.25 billion, if the costs are going to creep up how can you keep the costs under NDA? We are unable to gauge the success of the project :think:

tomuk
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Jdam wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 16:44
say their dispute with the MoD over costs for Type 31 Frigate programme has been resolved. (Details subject to NDA)
The is a bit worrying, the main benefit of the program is that we were getting 5 ships for 1.25 billion, if the costs are going to creep up how can you keep the costs under NDA? We are unable to gauge the success of the project :think:
The figures will come out it an NDA won't stand up to parliamentary scrutiny.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Jdam wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 16:44 …5 ships for 1.25 billion…
Impossible in a high inflation environment.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

Fair point.

SW1
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 19:05
Jdam wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 16:44 …5 ships for 1.25 billion…
Impossible in a high inflation environment.
It’s not just high inflation it’s large variations in inflation quickly and foreign currency and a very tight supply chain were people are bidding with each other to jump queues and get earlier deliver slots. It’s 3 decades of attempting to de industrialise the west and associated skills shortage that has generated.

It’s all programs getting affected.

bobp
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by bobp »

Happy to see that there is at least a bow sonar dome at the bow. A few months before she is launched I guess.

new guy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by new guy »

bobp wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 21:21 Happy to see that there is at least a bow sonar dome at the bow. A few months before she is launched I guess.
No, bulbous bow. We have seen it before and it is a pure steel block.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

new guy wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 21:28
bobp wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 21:21 Happy to see that there is at least a bow sonar dome at the bow. A few months before she is launched I guess.
No, bulbous bow. We have seen it before and it is a pure steel block.
The way back when floater for the T31 mentioned that the design should be capable of adding a hull sonar. FFBNW so to speak. Not heard much on that recently.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by new guy »

Ron5 wrote: 10 Feb 2024, 14:03
new guy wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 21:28
bobp wrote: 09 Feb 2024, 21:21 Happy to see that there is at least a bow sonar dome at the bow. A few months before she is launched I guess.
No, bulbous bow. We have seen it before and it is a pure steel block.
The way back when floater for the T31 mentioned that the design should be capable of adding a hull sonar. FFBNW so to speak. Not heard much on that recently.
You could probably put T31 in a dry dock and cut out part of the Bulbous bow to install one. The AH140 Design is capable of having a HMS, But the RN hasn't even chosen to FFBNW one.










vs HMS Saint Albans

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by new guy »

https://www.naval-technology.com/news/t ... s/?cf-view
The Type 31 frigate will now have the Mk41 integrated into the class, likely fitted amidships next to or in replacement of the existing SeaCeptor ‘mushroom farm’.


The integration the Mk 41 vertical launch systems (VLS) into the UK’s upcoming Type 31 frigates could come in the form of capability insertion periods carried out after the vessel has been delivered to the Royal Navy, rather than during the build process.

during a media briefing with Babcock at the company’s Royal Navy Dockyard in HMNB Devonport on 8 February, 2024, officials told Naval Technology that it was imperative the vessels were delivered on time to the Royal Navy.

The integration of the Mk 41 VLS into the Type 31 frigates could be done during “capability insertion periods” after the vessels had been delivered, officials said, adding that it was key that any decision should not “disrupt the delivery”.

Potentially, earlier vessels could be completed as originally designed, with future ships in class incorporating the Mk 41 VLS during the construction phase. The earlier designed vessels would then have the Mk 41 fitted at a later date during a capability upgrade phase undertaken around halfway through the initial service life, usually around 10-12 years.

This could create a two-variant class of Type 31 frigate, with older models initially delivered on a ‘fitted for but not with’ the Mk 41. This is relatively common among naval warship programmes, with variants created to fulfill specific roles, such as anti-ship warfare, as required.
According to the UK’s shipbuilding programme, five Type 31 Inspiration-class general-purpose frigates will be introduced into Royal Navy service from 2027, with Babcock apparently tasked to complete the handover of the fifth and final vessel the following year. Following each handover, the Royal Navy will begin a test and trials programme to ensure the vessel is ready for service, with HMS Venturer’s own due to be around four years long.


Delivering its H1 2023 results report in November last year, Babcock outlined the progress being made on the Type 31 frigate programme, stating at the time the first-in-class HMS Venturer was “progressing through construction” with the ship’s superstructure “taking shape”.

In addition, the main engines, gear boxes, and diesel generators had been installed with supporting systems being fitted around them. The next major milestone of HMS Venturer will be float-off, expected in the first half of 2024.
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Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

And there it is.

This is the bit where everyone says we install them after, that we will take our brand new warship off line for another 12 months rip out the current CAMM launchers to get the MK41 installed after its built (Pissing away god knows how much money in the process)

That said it is refreshing to see Babcock wanting to keep the build schedule on time by not having any complications. (I know it goes against the above but its nice to see)

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by serge750 »

Will be good to get them into service ASAP to lift the burdon from the hard worked T23's - if they come into service with 24 CAMM ( preferably more ) get NSM ASAP, then maybe update only 2 or 3 with mk41 as extra ' "MEAT" if they were part of a task group, if they are mainy going to be used as "patrol frigates" then forget about the mk41 refit expense

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Jdam wrote: 11 Feb 2024, 12:24 And there it is.

This is the bit where everyone says we install them after, that we will take our brand new warship off line for another 12 months rip out the current CAMM launchers to get the MK41 installed after its built (Pissing away god knows how much money in the process)

That said it is refreshing to see Babcock wanting to keep the build schedule on time by not having any complications. (I know it goes against the above but its nice to see)
Pointless doing that.

Simply sell them as soon as a suitable buyer emerges.

The T31 concept only works if Rosyth keeps churning them out and RN keeps decommissioning them at around 15-18 years.

Keep working on the spiral development and keep building.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

I doubt it will take 10 to 12 years for a midlife refit to add the Mk 41's. Most reputable sources indicate an capability insertion immediately after builder handover. Won't take 12 months either.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

If very early insertion of Mk41 is assured, then further unnecessary work to create the Mushroom Farm may even be halted. It might also speed handover to the RN.

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