Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

[Tempest414]

what is the speed that a LMM as it hits it targat at 9km if it is still going at mach 1.5 then again even as slows it should take down a drone at say 15km and if using Starstreak which would be going well over March 2 at 9Km so maybe 20km if the guidance system can pick up the drone

Good comment.

57mm bofors muzzle speed is Mach 3.5. Of course it will slow down. But for near engagement, the high speed helps a lot. Also 57 mm gun provides 220 round per min (including ALaMo already fielded).

I agree there is a room for LMM, but not large room. My impression is like “mounting CAMM on a ship with ESSM-blk2 (active seeker).” But, as Canada is doing the latter, there will be a room for LMM on a 57mm gun equipped ship.

If with MADFires come, LMM will not be needed on 57 mm gun equipped ships.

A lot will depend on the guidance system of Starstreak i.e what distance it can lock on and hold the lock but a naval Starstreak ER with extra stage rocket motor allowing max effect at 16km and deadly effect against drones at 22km's would be very useful

[tomuk]

what is the speed that a LMM as it hits it targat at 9km if it is still going at mach 1.5 then again even as slows it should take down a drone at say 15km and if using Starstreak which would be going well over March 2 at 9Km so maybe 20km if the guidance system can pick up the drone

Good comment.

57mm bofors muzzle speed is Mach 3.5. Of course it will slow down. But for near engagement, the high speed helps a lot. Also 57 mm gun provides 220 round per min (including ALaMo already fielded).

I agree there is a room for LMM, but not large room. My impression is like “mounting CAMM on a ship with ESSM-blk2 (active seeker).” But, as Canada is doing the latter, there will be a room for LMM on a 57mm gun equipped ship.

If with MADFires come, LMM will not be needed on 57 mm gun equipped ships.

A lot will depend on the guidance system of Starstreak i.e what distance it can lock on and hold the lock but a naval Starstreak ER with extra stage rocket motor allowing max effect at 16km and deadly effect against drones at 22km's would be very useful

Would LMM\Martlet not be a better bet as the ship will already have them for use on Wildcat. As to an ER version what would be the advantage over CAMM?

[Tempest414]

what is the speed that a LMM as it hits it targat at 9km if it is still going at mach 1.5 then again even as slows it should take down a drone at say 15km and if using Starstreak which would be going well over March 2 at 9Km so maybe 20km if the guidance system can pick up the drone

Good comment.

57mm bofors muzzle speed is Mach 3.5. Of course it will slow down. But for near engagement, the high speed helps a lot. Also 57 mm gun provides 220 round per min (including ALaMo already fielded).

I agree there is a room for LMM, but not large room. My impression is like “mounting CAMM on a ship with ESSM-blk2 (active seeker).” But, as Canada is doing the latter, there will be a room for LMM on a 57mm gun equipped ship.

If with MADFires come, LMM will not be needed on 57 mm gun equipped ships.

A lot will depend on the guidance system of Starstreak i.e what distance it can lock on and hold the lock but a naval Starstreak ER with extra stage rocket motor allowing max effect at 16km and deadly effect against drones at 22km's would be very useful

Would LMM\Martlet not be a better bet as the ship will already have them for use on Wildcat. As to an ER version what would be the advantage over CAMM?

Yes LMM could be held and used by both ship and Wildcat but if we got the ER version right then this to could be used from Wildcat as well

As for the ER LMM / Starstreak v CAMM different weapons allowing different options CAMM and CAMM ER would be area defence weapons and are radar guided wear starstreak ER would be a laser guided local defence weapon that could be reloaded at sea allowing the ship to have two forms of defence CAMM against fast moving modern ASM's and Starstreak ER against cheap armed drones

[NickC]

Good comment.

57mm bofors muzzle speed is Mach 3.5. Of course it will slow down. But for near engagement, the high speed helps a lot. Also 57 mm gun provides 220 round per min (including ALaMo already fielded).

There appears a massive amount of hype/misunderstanding talked about the Bofors 57mm with its purely theoretical 220 rpm, it has only two 20 rounds in ready use magazines that move with the gun before it has to stop to auto reload from the first of its intermediate magazines in mount. As understand the barrel is not water-cooled so would not be surprised if it had to stop firing after 20 rounds or so to cool off before recommencing fire, no figures released by Bofors, actual achievable rpm maybe as low as 40? As noted in earlier post in the light of their very hard won experience by RN and USN late/post WWII they developed the 3-inch/70, for the RN with the Mk.6 Vickers with its twin water cooled barrels enabled continuous fire at 90rpm per barrel.

Have seen 57 mm 6 lb shell variously quoted max effective rangel imited to 8,500 to 10, 000 m so would not be surprised if the Iranian boghammars able to stand off and fire their longer range anti-tank missiles at ship with impunity.

[donald_of_tokyo]

There appears a massive amount of hype/misunderstanding talked about the Bofors 57mm with its purely theoretical 220 rpm, it has only two 20 rounds in ready use magazines that move with the gun before it has to stop to auto reload from the first of its intermediate magazines in mount. As understand the barrel is not water-cooled so would not be surprised if it had to stop firing after 20 rounds or so to cool off before recommencing fire, no figures released by Bofors, actual achievable rpm maybe as low as 40? As noted in earlier post in the light of their very hard won experience by RN and USN late/post WWII they developed the 3-inch/70, for the RN with the Mk.6 Vickers with its twin water cooled barrels enabled continuous fire at 90rpm per barrel.

Agree it is many times forgotten. But, it is not the point. All the 57mm users in the globe knows it and still uses it. And, RN is one of the new customers of it.

"Ten 3P shell burst shots" is (or was) the basic AAW tactics for the gun. To make it dense enough, 220 rpm works well.

What is more, US extensive development of simple guided rounds for 57mm gun resulted in ALaMo rounds. It is said to be significantly cheaper than the other candidate (BAE's), and therefore fielded in number.

On the other hand, we hear nothing about MADFIRE AAW rounds recently. Also I noted that ALaMo now sometimes mentions AAW capability. I "guess" revive of slow-moving air assets (UAV/drones) make the anti-surface guided rounds revisited to also counter them. (like Helfire shooting down a helicopter)

Have seen 57 mm 6 lb shell variously quoted max effective rangel imited to 8,500 to 10, 000 m so would not be surprised if the Iranian boghammars able to stand off and fire their longer range anti-tank missiles at ship with impunity.

If the enemy is as "high grade" as firing ATGM to T31, just use LMM from Wildcat. 57mm ALaMo is there to counter more cheaper and numerous threats, and 3P against much cheaper and much numerous ones.

Not saying LMM is bad. I agree adding some LMM launchers will be "nice". But, it is not an all-round player and not so cheap. 57 mm gun is ALSO not all-rounder. But, 3P and guidance shells gives 57mm gun a good layered options, I think, which is partly overlapping with LMM.

So, adding LMM launchers on T45, T26, T23, Bay, Argus, and River B2 will be very nice, much more than it be nice on T31.

By the way, I'v not seen any laser command-line-of-sight missiles with range longer than 8 km. RBS70/90 is 7 km, StarStreak 2 is ~8 km. Any info?

[donald_of_tokyo]

By the way, 57mm ALaMo rounds. Are there any comprehensive document on its guidance? It looks like active radar guidance (albeit very simple one), which means it is "fire and forget". This will make a big difference in longer engagement range, as 4-8 km away, so that 57mm gun with ALaMo can handle multiple targets at once.

[SW1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67731853

Danish shipping company Maersk has said it is pausing all journeys through the Red Sea.
The decision comes after a spate of attacks on vessels launched from a part of Yemen controlled by the Houthis - an Iran-backed rebel movement.

The recent attacks on commercial vessels in the area are alarming and pose a significant threat to the safety and security of seafarers," Maersk said in a statement sent to the BBC.
"Following the near-miss incident involving Maersk Gibraltar yesterday and yet another attack on a container vessel today, we have instructed all Maersk vessels in the area bound to pass through the Bab al-Mandab Strait to pause their journey until further notice," it added.

[tomuk]

what is the speed that a LMM as it hits it targat at 9km if it is still going at mach 1.5 then again even as slows it should take down a drone at say 15km and if using Starstreak which would be going well over March 2 at 9Km so maybe 20km if the guidance system can pick up the drone

Good comment.

57mm bofors muzzle speed is Mach 3.5. Of course it will slow down. But for near engagement, the high speed helps a lot. Also 57 mm gun provides 220 round per min (including ALaMo already fielded).

I agree there is a room for LMM, but not large room. My impression is like “mounting CAMM on a ship with ESSM-blk2 (active seeker).” But, as Canada is doing the latter, there will be a room for LMM on a 57mm gun equipped ship.

If with MADFires come, LMM will not be needed on 57 mm gun equipped ships.

A lot will depend on the guidance system of Starstreak i.e what distance it can lock on and hold the lock but a naval Starstreak ER with extra stage rocket motor allowing max effect at 16km and deadly effect against drones at 22km's would be very useful

Would LMM\Martlet not be a better bet as the ship will already have them for use on Wildcat. As to an ER version what would be the advantage over CAMM?

Yes LMM could be held and used by both ship and Wildcat but if we got the ER version right then this to could be used from Wildcat as well

As for the ER LMM / Starstreak v CAMM different weapons allowing different options CAMM and CAMM ER would be area defence weapons and are radar guided wear starstreak ER would be a laser guided local defence weapon that could be reloaded at sea allowing the ship to have two forms of defence CAMM against fast moving modern ASM's and Starstreak ER against cheap armed drones

But what are the relative costs of CAMM and your new ER Starstreak\Martlet? Would the guidance system still work out to the extended range or would an additional IR or RF seeker be required?

[tomuk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67731853

Danish shipping company Maersk has said it is pausing all journeys through the Red Sea.
The decision comes after a spate of attacks on vessels launched from a part of Yemen controlled by the Houthis - an Iran-backed rebel movement.

The recent attacks on commercial vessels in the area are alarming and pose a significant threat to the safety and security of seafarers," Maersk said in a statement sent to the BBC.
"Following the near-miss incident involving Maersk Gibraltar yesterday and yet another attack on a container vessel today, we have instructed all Maersk vessels in the area bound to pass through the Bab al-Mandab Strait to pause their journey until further notice," it added.

These ships need escorts. Just the job for all the OPVs the RN has and should have. T31 is just overkill.

[Repulse]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67731853

Danish shipping company Maersk has said it is pausing all journeys through the Red Sea.
The decision comes after a spate of attacks on vessels launched from a part of Yemen controlled by the Houthis - an Iran-backed rebel movement.

The recent attacks on commercial vessels in the area are alarming and pose a significant threat to the safety and security of seafarers," Maersk said in a statement sent to the BBC.
"Following the near-miss incident involving Maersk Gibraltar yesterday and yet another attack on a container vessel today, we have instructed all Maersk vessels in the area bound to pass through the Bab al-Mandab Strait to pause their journey until further notice," it added.

These ships need escorts. Just the job for all the OPVs the RN has and should have. T31 is just overkill.

This is a high threat region where the threat is primarily air based, what it requires is a T45 to be surged as it is best equipped to provide area air defence. Also add a few Wildcats with LMM which has been proven to destroyed to UAVs and you have an affordable and effective way of countering the threat. Oh hang on that’s exactly what is happening.

[Tempest414]

what is the speed that a LMM as it hits it targat at 9km if it is still going at mach 1.5 then again even as slows it should take down a drone at say 15km and if using Starstreak which would be going well over March 2 at 9Km so maybe 20km if the guidance system can pick up the drone

Good comment.

57mm bofors muzzle speed is Mach 3.5. Of course it will slow down. But for near engagement, the high speed helps a lot. Also 57 mm gun provides 220 round per min (including ALaMo already fielded).

I agree there is a room for LMM, but not large room. My impression is like “mounting CAMM on a ship with ESSM-blk2 (active seeker).” But, as Canada is doing the latter, there will be a room for LMM on a 57mm gun equipped ship.

If with MADFires come, LMM will not be needed on 57 mm gun equipped ships.

A lot will depend on the guidance system of Starstreak i.e what distance it can lock on and hold the lock but a naval Starstreak ER with extra stage rocket motor allowing max effect at 16km and deadly effect against drones at 22km's would be very useful

Would LMM\Martlet not be a better bet as the ship will already have them for use on Wildcat. As to an ER version what would be the advantage over CAMM?

Yes LMM could be held and used by both ship and Wildcat but if we got the ER version right then this to could be used from Wildcat as well

As for the ER LMM / Starstreak v CAMM different weapons allowing different options CAMM and CAMM ER would be area defence weapons and are radar guided wear starstreak ER would be a laser guided local defence weapon that could be reloaded at sea allowing the ship to have two forms of defence CAMM against fast moving modern ASM's and Starstreak ER against cheap armed drones

But what are the relative costs of CAMM and your new ER Starstreak\Martlet? Would the guidance system still work out to the extended range or would an additional IR or RF seeker be required?

As said above it would all be about how far the guidance system can lock on to a target but I think that we have seen a 12km kill with Starstreak in Ukraine but would to look that up

If the guidance system works out to say 20km then I would only be looking to add an extra smaller boost phase at the end of the main phase to extend the range of the missile but as said it is all down to the guidance system if it is not up to it then keep it as is

[donald_of_tokyo]

Danish shipping company Maersk has said it is pausing all journeys through the Red Sea.
The decision comes after a spate of attacks on vessels launched from a part of Yemen controlled by the Houthis - an Iran-backed rebel movement.
…

These ships need escorts. Just the job for all the OPVs the RN has and should have. T31 is just overkill.

This is a high threat region where the threat is primarily air based, what it requires is a T45 to be surged as it is best equipped to provide area air defence. Also add a few Wildcats with LMM which has been proven to destroyed to UAVs and you have an affordable and effective way of countering the threat. Oh hang on that’s exactly what is happening.

I think this is the exact theater T31 is designed for. Perfect match,

[SW1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67731853

Danish shipping company Maersk has said it is pausing all journeys through the Red Sea.
The decision comes after a spate of attacks on vessels launched from a part of Yemen controlled by the Houthis - an Iran-backed rebel movement.

The recent attacks on commercial vessels in the area are alarming and pose a significant threat to the safety and security of seafarers," Maersk said in a statement sent to the BBC.
"Following the near-miss incident involving Maersk Gibraltar yesterday and yet another attack on a container vessel today, we have instructed all Maersk vessels in the area bound to pass through the Bab al-Mandab Strait to pause their journey until further notice," it added.

These ships need escorts. Just the job for all the OPVs the RN has and should have. T31 is just overkill.

When you’ve concentrated on a small exquisite battle fleet and then realise you need to surge it to the Baltic, the Mediterranean the Indian Ocean and Arabia and potentially even the Caribbean all at the same time you quickly realise you don’t have a battle fleet anymore.

And that it’s not fighting a big battle that has been your raison d’etre for hundreds of years but ensuring the your economy continues uninterrupted with the free flow of trade into and out of it.

[Repulse]

I think this is the exact theater T31 is designed for. Perfect match,

If you are talking about how everyone wants it to be equipped and assuming the threat doesn’t increase then yes probably ok as a second best to a T45. As it was designed and in the RFP (potentially just 12 CAMM) I think not - it might be able to protect itself from a swarm enough to retreat but not a lot more.

When you’ve concentrated on a small exquisite battle fleet and then realise you need to surge it to the Baltic, the Mediterranean the Indian Ocean and Arabia and potentially even the Caribbean all at the same time you quickly realise you don’t have a battle fleet anymore.

And that it’s not fighting a big battle that has been your raison d’etre for hundreds of years but ensuring the your economy continues uninterrupted with the free flow of trade into and out of it.

Or you realise you need a larger battle fleet to be able to not only surge but to fight also. Should have been 12 T45s or even 8 would have given more choices but that’s history and the legacy of Blair’s wars.

[Tempest414]

I think this is the exact theater T31 is designed for. Perfect match,

If you are talking about how everyone wants it to be equipped and assuming the threat doesn’t increase then yes probably ok as a second best to a T45. As it was designed and in the RFP (potentially just 12 CAMM) I think not - it might be able to protect itself from a swarm enough to retreat but not a lot more.

When you’ve concentrated on a small exquisite battle fleet and then realise you need to surge it to the Baltic, the Mediterranean the Indian Ocean and Arabia and potentially even the Caribbean all at the same time you quickly realise you don’t have a battle fleet anymore.

And that it’s not fighting a big battle that has been your raison d’etre for hundreds of years but ensuring the your economy continues uninterrupted with the free flow of trade into and out of it.

Or you realise you need a larger battle fleet to be able to not only surge but to fight also. Should have been 12 T45s or even 8 would have given more choices but that’s history and the legacy of Blair’s wars.

And this why the RN went with AH-140 after they were told they could not have all 13 type 26 and also why the RN seem to be setting about making T31 real fighting frigate

[SW1]

I think this is the exact theater T31 is designed for. Perfect match,

If you are talking about how everyone wants it to be equipped and assuming the threat doesn’t increase then yes probably ok as a second best to a T45. As it was designed and in the RFP (potentially just 12 CAMM) I think not - it might be able to protect itself from a swarm enough to retreat but not a lot more.

When you’ve concentrated on a small exquisite battle fleet and then realise you need to surge it to the Baltic, the Mediterranean the Indian Ocean and Arabia and potentially even the Caribbean all at the same time you quickly realise you don’t have a battle fleet anymore.

And that it’s not fighting a big battle that has been your raison d’etre for hundreds of years but ensuring the your economy continues uninterrupted with the free flow of trade into and out of it.

Or you realise you need a larger battle fleet to be able to not only surge but to fight also. Should have been 12 T45s or even 8 would have given more choices but that’s history and the legacy of Blair’s wars.

You could have had all the type 45s you want, but the admirals decided aircraft carriers and their airwing was priority with there task group navy, 20 billion and counting later we are where we are.

[SW1]

HMS Diamond now engaged

[Dahedd]

And this why the RN went with AH-140 after they were told they could not have all 13 type 26 and also why the RN seem to be setting about making T31 real fighting frigate

And this where IF the money is available then the T31 could become a reasonable second tier AAW frigate. Personally it would be better coupled with the CSG to allow the T45 to have more of a surge role as a ship that all Navies would want to turn up to help.

Turning the conversation forward, I would rather have a future fleet of 16-18 multi-role tier one AAW/ASW T83s than the motley T26/T45/T31 collections, for the very reason that future threats are unknown apart from the proliferation of things like UAVs show the direction. What would be our response to a similar situation where it’s not UAVs but subs and LUUVs for example.

[Dahedd]

And this why the RN went with AH-140 after they were told they could not have all 13 type 26 and also why the RN seem to be setting about making T31 real fighting frigate

And this where IF the money is available then the T31 could become a reasonable second tier AAW frigate. Personally it would be better coupled with the CSG to allow the T45 to have more of a surge role as a ship that all Navies would want to turn up to help.

Turning the conversation forward, I would rather have a future fleet of 16-18 multi-role tier one AAW/ASW T83s than the motley T26/T45/T31 collections, for the very reason that future threats are unknown apart from the proliferation of things like UAVs show the direction. What would be our response to a similar situation where it’s not UAVs but subs and LUUVs for example.

Agreed. Given its base hull is the Iver Huitfeldt air defence frigate could we not have the last 2 of this build configured for AAW? That or a small second batch or the even T32 (as much as I'd like that to be the Absalon if it's priority is surface drone warfare)

[donald_of_tokyo]

I think this is the exact theater T31 is designed for. Perfect match,

If you are talking about how everyone wants it to be equipped and assuming the threat doesn’t increase then yes probably ok as a second best to a T45. As it was designed and in the RFP (potentially just 12 CAMM) I think not - it might be able to protect itself from a swarm enough to retreat but not a lot more.

How many Aster 15 has so far been fired? Also, French FREMM only carries 16 ASTER 15.

Why a T31 with 24 CAMM (I guess so, but even with 12 CAMM) with good close-in self-defense against drones, be "not useful" there?

[Tempest414]

And this why the RN went with AH-140 after they were told they could not have all 13 type 26 and also why the RN seem to be setting about making T31 real fighting frigate

And this where IF the money is available then the T31 could become a reasonable second tier AAW frigate. Personally it would be better coupled with the CSG to allow the T45 to have more of a surge role as a ship that all Navies would want to turn up to help.

Turning the conversation forward, I would rather have a future fleet of 16-18 multi-role tier one AAW/ASW T83s than the motley T26/T45/T31 collections, for the very reason that future threats are unknown apart from the proliferation of things like UAVs show the direction. What would be our response to a similar situation where it’s not UAVs but subs and LUUVs for example.

Well it depends how far we would want to take Type 31 but fitting it with the largest of the 4D Sea Fire radar systems and 32 VLS maybe 16 Sylver A70 and 16 MK-41 to allow for 16 Aster 30 and 64 CAMM plus 8 to 16 x NSM would work well

You could also remove the forward 40mm and replace it with 16 Sylver A50 for 16 Aster 30 and keep all 32 Mk-41's allowing for a loadout of 16 x Aster 30 , 32 x CAMM , 16 x TLAM and 8 x NSM plus fit a Phalanx on top of the Hangar and 2 x 40mm ether side

But then it would make type 31 a ship all navies would be happy to have around

[Repulse]

I think this is the exact theater T31 is designed for. Perfect match,

If you are talking about how everyone wants it to be equipped and assuming the threat doesn’t increase then yes probably ok as a second best to a T45. As it was designed and in the RFP (potentially just 12 CAMM) I think not - it might be able to protect itself from a swarm enough to retreat but not a lot more.

How many Aster 15 has so far been fired? Also, French FREMM only carries 16 ASTER 15.

Why a T31 with 24 CAMM (I guess so, but even with 12 CAMM) with good close-in self-defense against drones, be "not useful" there?

It’s not about just being useful, with limited resources the RN needs to focus on more than just usefulness - it needs to provide game changing capabilities, which IMO with the range of Sampson radar and its ability to control and direct a range of assets is more than just turning up.

Also, we are focusing on just protection at the moment, how do we work with allies to eliminate the threat?

[Repulse]

Well it depends how far we would want to take Type 31 but fitting it with the largest of the 4D Sea Fire radar systems and 32 VLS maybe 16 Sylver A70 and 16 MK-41 to allow for 16 Aster 30 and 64 CAMM plus 8 to 16 x NSM would work well

You could also remove the forward 40mm and replace it with 16 Sylver A50 for 16 Aster 30 and keep all 32 Mk-41's allowing for a loadout of 16 x Aster 30 , 32 x CAMM , 16 x TLAM and 8 x NSM plus fit a Phalanx on top of the Hangar and 2 x 40mm ether side

But then it would make type 31 a ship all navies would be happy to have around

You could but it’s probably unaffordable - adding Sampson to the carriers plus CEC for the fleet would be a good place to start and with the MK41 VLS would allow the T31 to be a good enough peacetime CSG AAW escort.

One broader question, one of the arguments for Sampson vs fixed panels is its ability to detect low flying threats further away - this would be the case for UAVs also, though I assume current IAVs need to be inline of sight of the controller so for non state actors (without satellites) need to fly higher?

[donald_of_tokyo]

And this why the RN went with AH-140 after they were told they could not have all 13 type 26 and also why the RN seem to be setting about making T31 real fighting frigate

And this where IF the money is available then the T31 could become a reasonable second tier AAW frigate. Personally it would be better coupled with the CSG to allow the T45 to have more of a surge role as a ship that all Navies would want to turn up to help.

Turning the conversation forward, I would rather have a future fleet of 16-18 multi-role tier one AAW/ASW T83s than the motley T26/T45/T31 collections, for the very reason that future threats are unknown apart from the proliferation of things like UAVs show the direction. What would be our response to a similar situation where it’s not UAVs but subs and LUUVs for example.

Agreed. Given its base hull is the Iver Huitfeldt air defence frigate could we not have the last 2 of this build configured for AAW? That or a small second batch or the even T32 (as much as I'd like that to be the Absalon if it's priority is surface drone warfare)

I do not think we need Iver-Huilfeldt type AAW capability for T31. T45 is there. T23 with 32 CAMM, and T26 with 48 CAMM will be there. And, T31 can easily carry 24 CAMM without big upgrade.

On my view, I think what is needed is "more ships with either area or local-area air defense" capability. T31 is capable of local-area air defense.

There are 17 escorts in RN which are ALL capable to do this. What is lacking is NOT the hulls, but the man-power.

But, there are dozens of "area or local-area air defense" assets in Europe (and Saudi Arabia).

All 17 RN escorts. 4 Horizon and 16 FREMM of French and Italy. 9 AEGIS ships (5 Bazan (Spain) and 4 Nansen class (Norway)). 10 APAR ships (4 DZP class (Netherlands), 3 Iver H class (Denmark), 3 Sachsen class (Germany)).

In view of FPDA, 3 Perth class and 8 ANZAC class (RAN), 2 TeKaha class (NZ), 6 Formidable class (Singapore). There are also dozens of VL-MICA equipped corvettes (including the 4 Al Khareef class (Oman)).

PS I was personally impressed by writing "All 17 RN escorts are area or local-area air defense capable". Impressive it is.

PS2 JMSDFS Akebono on station is NOT capable of local-area air defense, sadly.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Also, we are focusing on just protection at the moment, how do we work with allies to eliminate the threat?

Carrier strike?