AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

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mrclark303
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by mrclark303 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 17:04
mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 14:14
dmereifield wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 12:12 Shame, was hoping it was a larger order
I'm afraid not, the lingering death of Wildcat keeps grinding excruciatingly onwards....
You sound disapointed. It is if you think it is a shame that another country did not see the light (in your view) of buying expensive US alternative imports.....

I for one am glad that British based employees get to work even if it is just another 24 helicopters, and thereby keep their skills fresh and up to date. We have underinvested in our UK based Defence industry in general for years, allowing too many companies to be purchased by foriegn competitors, and often for the British factories being closed and the work shifted to overseas, cheaper workforce.

The combination of Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine has shown the importance of having local, secure, resilient supply chains, and not relying on cheaper overseas production, :arrow: over which we have no control. So for me every bit of British based Defence production is a small step in the right direction.
Nope, not my point at all, simply put, Wildcat was ill devised, designed, developed and procured at huge expense, with almost zero chance of foreign exports.

The RN would have been perfectly happy with new updated Lynx.

the Army couldn't have new Lynx because it lacks the crash worthy seats and installing them in Wildcat rendered it capable of carrying less people than my old 110 Defender!

It carries no scouting specific avionics, no pylon mounted weapons, It's quite frankly about as useful to the Army as Chocolate teapot....

It stands as a glowing example of absolutely piss poor UK procument policy and a good example of how we spend 50 odd billion a year, yet have sod all to show for it...

I don't have an issue with UK based procument, I do have a 'massive' issue with purely politically driven vanity projects that utterly waste tax payers money, as we all should....

wargame_insomniac
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 19:14
wargame_insomniac wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 17:04
mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 14:14
dmereifield wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 12:12 Shame, was hoping it was a larger order
I'm afraid not, the lingering death of Wildcat keeps grinding excruciatingly onwards....
You sound disapointed. It is if you think it is a shame that another country did not see the light (in your view) of buying expensive US alternative imports.....

I for one am glad that British based employees get to work even if it is just another 24 helicopters, and thereby keep their skills fresh and up to date. We have underinvested in our UK based Defence industry in general for years, allowing too many companies to be purchased by foriegn competitors, and often for the British factories being closed and the work shifted to overseas, cheaper workforce.

The combination of Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine has shown the importance of having local, secure, resilient supply chains, and not relying on cheaper overseas production, :arrow: over which we have no control. So for me every bit of British based Defence production is a small step in the right direction.
Nope, not my point at all, simply put, Wildcat was ill devised, designed, developed and procured at huge expense, with almost zero chance of foreign exports.

The RN would have been perfectly happy with new updated Lynx.

the Army couldn't have new Lynx because it lacks the crash worthy seats and installing them in Wildcat rendered it capable of carrying less people than my old 110 Defender!

It carries no scouting specific avionics, no pylon mounted weapons, It's quite frankly about as useful to the Army as Chocolate teapot....

It stands as a glowing example of absolutely piss poor UK procument policy and a good example of how we spend 50 odd billion a year, yet have sod all to show for it...

I don't have an issue with UK based procument, I do have a 'massive' issue with purely politically driven vanity projects that utterly waste tax payers money, as we all should....
Then why on earth are you so bitter about AMOTHER country buying 24 nw Wildcats!!

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mrclark303
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by mrclark303 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 19:26
mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 19:14
wargame_insomniac wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 17:04
mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 14:14
dmereifield wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 12:12 Shame, was hoping it was a larger order
I'm afraid not, the lingering death of Wildcat keeps grinding excruciatingly onwards....
You sound disapointed. It is if you think it is a shame that another country did not see the light (in your view) of buying expensive US alternative imports.....

I for one am glad that British based employees get to work even if it is just another 24 helicopters, and thereby keep their skills fresh and up to date. We have underinvested in our UK based Defence industry in general for years, allowing too many companies to be purchased by foriegn competitors, and often for the British factories being closed and the work shifted to overseas, cheaper workforce.

The combination of Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine has shown the importance of having local, secure, resilient supply chains, and not relying on cheaper overseas production, :arrow: over which we have no control. So for me every bit of British based Defence production is a small step in the right direction.
Nope, not my point at all, simply put, Wildcat was ill devised, designed, developed and procured at huge expense, with almost zero chance of foreign exports.

The RN would have been perfectly happy with new updated Lynx.

the Army couldn't have new Lynx because it lacks the crash worthy seats and installing them in Wildcat rendered it capable of carrying less people than my old 110 Defender!

It carries no scouting specific avionics, no pylon mounted weapons, It's quite frankly about as useful to the Army as Chocolate teapot....

It stands as a glowing example of absolutely piss poor UK procument policy and a good example of how we spend 50 odd billion a year, yet have sod all to show for it...

I don't have an issue with UK based procument, I do have a 'massive' issue with purely politically driven vanity projects that utterly waste tax payers money, as we all should....
Then why on earth are you so bitter about AMOTHER country buying 24 nw Wildcats!!
So, who is buying 24??

I can't find any reference for that? Even if it was true, it would push total orders to a rather pathetic 104.

Little J
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Little J »

Not sure where 24 came from, but this is from the Leonardo thread...
If these are successfully concluded, the volumes under discussion would lead to a “double-digit backlog” for the Wildcat, said Clarke, speaking at an event in Yeovil on 22 August
A Wildcat sized Naval asset was never going to set the sales world on fire... But then, NH90 was the right size, sold shed loads and look how that turned out.

(I think I have a good idea what comes next)

Phil Sayers
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Phil Sayers »

mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 19:14
It carries no scouting specific avionics, no pylon mounted weapons, It's quite frankly about as useful to the Army as Chocolate teapot....

It is somewhat puzzling that the AAC does not seem to see any benefit in acquiring the RN's pylons and Martlet. Obviously, money is tight but it would presumably be a fairly cheap acquisition. Maybe they are concerned that doing that could be cited to reduce the Apache buy?

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by new guy »

Phil Sayers wrote: 28 Aug 2023, 16:01
mrclark303 wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 19:14
It carries no scouting specific avionics, no pylon mounted weapons, It's quite frankly about as useful to the Army as Chocolate teapot....

It is somewhat puzzling that the AAC does not seem to see any benefit in acquiring the RN's pylons and Martlet. Obviously, money is tight but it would presumably be a fairly cheap acquisition. Maybe they are concerned that doing that could be cited to reduce the Apache buy?
apache has been bought...
Just saying, no excuses.


Being reasonable however, it would make sense for it to not be at the top of their list.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Another example of the importance of concentrating on the basis first. The scale of the waste must be breathtaking.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/0 ... -wildcats/

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/defence- ... anagement/

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by SKB »


(Forces News) 3rd October 2023
Wildcat is the latest generation of multi-role helicopters specifically procured to operate from the frigates and destroyers of the Royal Navy.

Forces News was given a tour of the helicopter embarked on Type 23 frigate HMS Iron Duke.

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Ian Hall
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Ian Hall »

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... s-in-focus

Navy Wildcats gunning for their true potential in 2024
New weaponry and tech will help the Royal Navy's fleet of Wildcat maritime attack helicopters reach their true potential in 2024 after nearly ten years of front-line operations.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Ron5 »

Yeay!! Link 16.

Originally deleted from Wildcat build contract to save money. Let's hear it for the Treasury, so much better to pay more later than spend today.

Phil Sayers
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Phil Sayers »

If this means that the AAC Wildcats will now be receiving sufficient information to locate and target enemy vehicles from a variety of sources dotted around the battlefield, it makes it even more of a no-brainer to acquire the RN's pylons and Martlet / APKWS.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Ron5 »

Perhaps they should have all been built to the same standard!!!



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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

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SKB
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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by SKB »


(Forces News) 23rd April 2024
815 Naval Air Squadron (NAS) is the home of the Wildcat – the Royal Navy's latest generation maritime attack helicopter. Forces News takes a closer look at the Royal Navy unit and their role.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by CSGenjoyer25 »

Wildcat flying trails with 20 Martlet missiles

https://x.com/GbhvfRon/status/181834036 ... 59/photo/1

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Ron5 »

I would have thought long time past trials. Maybe pilot training?

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Ron5 »

Ron5 wrote: 31 Jul 2024, 13:24 I would have thought long time past trials. Maybe pilot training?
I am wrong. The latest edition of DESIDER (sorry I don't have the address at the moment) says the trials are ongoing with asymmetrical loads etc currently being performed.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by new guy »

Ron5 wrote: 03 Aug 2024, 13:16
Ron5 wrote: 31 Jul 2024, 13:24 I would have thought long time past trials. Maybe pilot training?
I am wrong. The latest edition of DESIDER (sorry I don't have the address at the moment) says the trials are ongoing with asymmetrical loads etc currently being performed.
Yes , asymmetrical. The above is approved symmetrical, likely for pilot training.
The bellow is the referenced asymmetrical.


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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by new guy »

Questions about the current formation of the RN- wildcats

815 sqn- Frontline
Is it 12 flights?
What is the % of flights are on operations?
Is it 12 aircraft strong?

825 sqn- OCU
If a) 815 is 12 Aircraft, and b) there are 28 RN wildcats, then why are there 16 in the OCU?

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by sol »

new guy wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 23:28 Questions about the current formation of the RN- wildcats

815 sqn- Frontline
Is it 12 flights?
What is the % of flights are on operations?
Is it 12 aircraft strong?

825 sqn- OCU
If a) 815 is 12 Aircraft, and b) there are 28 RN wildcats, then why are there 16 in the OCU?
I don't know what is current strength of the 815 Squadron, but article from 2016 called it ...
... the Fleet Air Arm’s largest squadron ...
... but without knowing strength of other squadrons in FAA at that time it does not gives much clue of its actual strength. But even if it has 12 aircraft, it does not mean that all of the rest are under 825, as number of Wildcats might actually be kept in active reserve.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by luckner »

Usually 20% of the inventory is kept as attrition/maintenance reserve, so you should expect that only 22 or 23 Wildcat HMA are operational.

815 squadron is tasked to provide aircraft for type 45, type 23GP/Type31 and RFA ships. I also suspect, that some Wildcats are operated by the carriers for reconnaisance, plane guard and personal transfer, where a Merlin would be uneconomical.

In extremis, this would mean 12 for type 45, 5 for the frigates and 2 x 3 for the carriers - adding up to 23 helicopters.

In praxis, the number is much lower since not all ships are operational - so 12 seems to be a good guess.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by new guy »

luckner wrote: 13 Sep 2024, 09:17 Usually 20% of the inventory is kept as attrition/maintenance reserve, so you should expect that only 22 or 23 Wildcat HMA are operational.

815 squadron is tasked to provide aircraft for type 45, type 23GP/Type31 and RFA ships. I also suspect, that some Wildcats are operated by the carriers for reconnaisance, plane guard and personal transfer, where a Merlin would be uneconomical.

In extremis, this would mean 12 for type 45, 5 for the frigates and 2 x 3 for the carriers - adding up to 23 helicopters.

In praxis, the number is much lower since not all ships are operational - so 12 seems to be a good guess.
12 helicopters in 12 flights was the RN number in 2018 for 815 , I was seeing how it was changed / if it was accurate.

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Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Post by Gr_1 »

Royal Navy Wildcat helicopter test-fires Sea Venom anti-ship missile for first time

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/2024/ ... om-wildcat

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