AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

SW1 wrote: 26 May 2023, 20:10 That is not what the government currently requires. It is your wish list.
What does the government currently require?

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Poiuytrewq wrote: 26 May 2023, 20:27
SW1 wrote: 26 May 2023, 20:10 That is not what the government currently requires. It is your wish list.
What does the government currently require?
A carrier strike group and support to the nuclear deterrent.

And national SF support

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Tempest414
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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As said many a time we need to buy 70 AW-149 or the like these need to have a folding rotor and be split 40 /30 between the Army and RAF. Next the armies Wildcats need to go to the Navy

We can then have 3 flights of 4 Merlin HC4's one for the CSG and one each for LRG/N&S these will be backed up as needed by the RAF AW-149's

With this the LRG's can have a mix of 4 x Merlin and 4 x Wildcat
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Poiuytrewq
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Tempest414 wrote: 27 May 2023, 07:57 ….the armies Wildcats need to go to the Navy
This would instantly solve the RN helicopter shortage and remove the “no need for more hangers as not enough helicopters” argument.
With this the LRG's can have a mix of 4 x Merlin and 4 x Wildcat
Perfect, that’s all that is required.

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Tempest414
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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If we went with 70 Aw-149's this could mean that the 4 Merlin's and 4 Wildcats of the LRG's could be backed up by Chinooks , AW-149's and Apache's as needed
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Tempest414 wrote: 27 May 2023, 08:40 If we went with 70 Aw-149's this could mean that the 4 Merlin's and 4 Wildcats of the LRG's could be backed up by Chinooks , AW-149's and Apache's as needed
The services can’t crew or support the helicopters they currently have how’s adding another 70 going to improve things?

If your adding that many helicopters to these supposed LRGs it’s really just the carrier group.

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Tempest414
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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SW1 wrote: 27 May 2023, 09:13
Tempest414 wrote: 27 May 2023, 08:40 If we went with 70 Aw-149's this could mean that the 4 Merlin's and 4 Wildcats of the LRG's could be backed up by Chinooks , AW-149's and Apache's as needed
The services can’t crew or support the helicopters they currently have how’s adding another 70 going to improve things?

If your adding that many helicopters to these supposed LRGs it’s really just the carrier group.
Always with the negative waves Moriarty. Just think beautiful positive thoughts and those new helicopters crews and spares will be there baby

Remember it is this government that wants a global force and if that is what they want they have to pay for it

Also out of 70 aircraft 10 will be in deep maintenance 10 will be in the joint OCU leaving 2 units of 10 in the RAF and 3 unit of 10 in the Army

The 40 for the Army would replace Wildcat , Bell 212 & AS365 and the 30 in the RAF would replace Puma and Griffin

The armies Wildcats would go to the Navy with say 15 taken into service and the other 20 stored and rotated around to extend fleet life and allow proper upgrade plans so in total we would be adding say 15 to 20 helicopters not 70
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Poiuytrewq
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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SW1 wrote: 27 May 2023, 09:13 If your adding that many helicopters to these supposed LRGs it’s really just the carrier group.
It depends what constitutes an LRG.

If LRG(S) is formed with a Bay, Argus and two T31’s then the group has theoretical capacity of 6x Merlin and 6x Wildcat. Adding Apache and Chinook is more of a challenge but with Argus it is possible if required.

Why would you need a full CSG to perform a tasking the LRG is designed to perform? Namely, to deploy a modest RM force to operate in the Littoral whilst utilising the T31’s for A2/AD and the embarked Wildcats for ASuW?

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Poiuytrewq wrote: 27 May 2023, 11:13
SW1 wrote: 27 May 2023, 09:13 If your adding that many helicopters to these supposed LRGs it’s really just the carrier group.
It depends what constitutes an LRG.

If LRG(S) is formed with a Bay, Argus and two T31’s then the group has theoretical capacity of 6x Merlin and 6x Wildcat. Adding Apache and Chinook is more of a challenge but with Argus it is possible if required.

Why would you need a full CSG to perform a tasking the LRG is designed to perform? Namely, to deploy a modest RM force to operate in the Littoral whilst utilising the T31’s for A2/AD and the embarked Wildcats for ASuW?
What is the tasking the LRG is designed to preform?

If they are only talking about littoral work probably a couple of wildcat would suffice for boarding overwatch and surveillance. No need for merlin or chinook to embark

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Tempest414
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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I would say Littoral means up to 100k in land. I would also say that you need 4 Merlin's to move and support a re-enforced company or move HDAR kit plus 4 Wildcats to have 2 on QRA fitted with 10 LMM and 2 Sea Venom add to this 6 to 8 UAV's for OTH search and track

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Tempest414 wrote: 27 May 2023, 11:01 Always with the negative waves Moriarty. Just think beautiful positive thoughts and those new helicopters crews and spares will be there baby

Remember it is this government that wants a global force and if that is what they want they have to pay for it
I don't think the government wants a global force nor the slightest intention of paying for a large increase in numbers.

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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I would agree the this government has no intention of paying for anything

It would also be nice for this government to say what it really wants

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Moved across.

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Good documents to understand what has been done with improving Merlin HC4 capability with the test onboard HMS Albion. Looks reasonable, and promising. As stated in the last paragraph, the increased capability may impact also the ASW Merlin HM2.

Merlin is a large and expensive to operate asset. The testing (probably) does NOT affect the maintenance load, but simply improve the capability limit. So, its "merit vs operation-cost" balance gets better. "How better?" is important here.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... es-merlins
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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donald_of_tokyo wrote: 26 Jul 2023, 14:41 Good documents to understand what has been done with improving Merlin HC4 capability with the test onboard HMS Albion. Looks reasonable, and promising. As stated in the last paragraph, the increased capability may impact also the ASW Merlin HM2.

Merlin is a large and expensive to operate asset. The testing (probably) does NOT affect the maintenance load, but simply improve the capability limit. So, its "merit vs operation-cost" balance gets better. "How better?" is important here.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... es-merlins
I'm not so impressed this seems to me to be trials and clearances work that should have been done for HC4 prior to IOC or FOC. Probably delayed or cancelled due to earlier budget pressure and now trumpeted as some sort of innovation.
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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tomuk wrote: 26 Jul 2023, 17:18
donald_of_tokyo wrote: 26 Jul 2023, 14:41 Good documents to understand what has been done with improving Merlin HC4 capability with the test onboard HMS Albion. Looks reasonable, and promising. As stated in the last paragraph, the increased capability may impact also the ASW Merlin HM2.

Merlin is a large and expensive to operate asset. The testing (probably) does NOT affect the maintenance load, but simply improve the capability limit. So, its "merit vs operation-cost" balance gets better. "How better?" is important here.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... es-merlins
I'm not so impressed this seems to me to be trials and clearances work that should have been done for HC4 prior to IOC or FOC. Probably delayed or cancelled due to earlier budget pressure and now trumpeted as some sort of innovation.
Quite specific to artic operations it would seem, given the weight added for the maritime conversion would be interested to see what benefit this gives is in lift the tropics along west Africa and Middle East summer.

Will it be able to lift a Viking for example in the artic.

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Whatever the background, this does represent a potential 50% increase in previous (Merlin) RM airlift capacity, or greater redundancy, or range. “Just what the (FCF) doctor would have prescribed”. :mrgreen:

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Ian Hall
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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BZ to the UK's flight test capability.

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Great but without an increase in numbers they will be flogged to death sooner.

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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bobp wrote: 26 Jul 2023, 19:03 Great but without an increase in numbers they will be flogged to death sooner.
For this to happen the total authorised annual flying hours for the MK4 fleet would need to be increased, and funded. I don't believe the article says this. Rather it's talking about increasing the maximum payload/ range/ endurance when flown from ship to give better operational effectiveness and flexibility, not an AFH increase.
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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bobp wrote: 26 Jul 2023, 19:03 Great but without an increase in numbers they will be flogged to death sooner.
Doesn’t it mean that you need fewer aircraft, on average, to fulfil any given task, so you actually put less time on your fleet as a whole?
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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Increasing payload and fuel plus increasing flight hours means more downtime for inspections and servicing.
Admittedly a good thing for ship to shore operations.
I worry about lack of numbers.

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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bobp wrote: 26 Jul 2023, 23:41 Increasing payload and fuel plus increasing flight hours means more downtime for inspections and servicing.
Admittedly a good thing for ship to shore operations.
I worry about lack of numbers.
We also have to remember that black box that records airframe life this not just flying hours but stress as well so as an idea in Afgan 1 flight hour in the air was about 1.5 on the clock due to hot and high conditions putting extra stress on the airframe
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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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topman wrote: 27 May 2023, 16:03
Tempest414 wrote: 27 May 2023, 11:01 Always with the negative waves Moriarty. Just think beautiful positive thoughts and those new helicopters crews and spares will be there baby

Remember it is this government that wants a global force and if that is what they want they have to pay for it
I don't think the government wants a global force nor the slightest intention of paying for a large increase in numbers.
How wrong this was Ah turns out the government did want a Global force however I will say you were right in that they have no intention of paying for it

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Re: AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

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When will governments realise that if they fail to adequately provide for their primary responsibility, they will inevitably deserve NOT to be re-elected.

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