Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Ron5
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

TheLoneRanger wrote: 08 May 2023, 17:30
Spitfire9 wrote: 08 May 2023, 11:11 Turkish foreign minister is asking for money back on F-35. This could inject extra tensions into an F-16 deal with US, raising the chances of Turkey buying something else (eg Typhoon) to cover requirements up to the time TF-X is integrated into the Turkish air force.

Indian source: https://idrw.org/turkiye-does-not-ask-t ... ore-311440
The Americans have really messed up their relationship with Turkey. They sanctioned Turkey for buying the S400 ( imho - they should not have bought this junk .. ) but then did not sanction India for buying ther S400. That kind of lack of even handed approach really sticks with the Turks. The Kaan jet is a reflection of the fact that Turkey is large enough to go its own way if it choses to do so ...
Not sanctions, just the ability to purchase F-35's was taken away. India isn't buying F-35's so not relevant.
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Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

Ron5 wrote: 09 May 2023, 13:21
TheLoneRanger wrote: 08 May 2023, 17:30
Spitfire9 wrote: 08 May 2023, 11:11 Turkish foreign minister is asking for money back on F-35. This could inject extra tensions into an F-16 deal with US, raising the chances of Turkey buying something else (eg Typhoon) to cover requirements up to the time TF-X is integrated into the Turkish air force.

Indian source: https://idrw.org/turkiye-does-not-ask-t ... ore-311440
The Americans have really messed up their relationship with Turkey. They sanctioned Turkey for buying the S400 ( imho - they should not have bought this junk .. ) but then did not sanction India for buying ther S400. That kind of lack of even handed approach really sticks with the Turks. The Kaan jet is a reflection of the fact that Turkey is large enough to go its own way if it choses to do so ...
Not sanctions, just the ability to purchase F-35's was taken away. India isn't buying F-35's so not relevant.
@Ron5... There was no mention in the article of India buying F-35. India may, however, order a load more Rafales this summer.

Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on May 10 that the Biden administration will respect his informal veto of a sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70/72s to Turkey, and warned that he will retaliate if any deal is made with Ankara.

The remarks at a conference in Washington about Cyprus show that Menendez does not expect the White House to approve a sale of F-16s to Turkey in exchange for President Recep Erdogan’s approval of Sweden’s bid for NATO membership.
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... n-menendez

Sounds to me like Turkey won't be getting F-16 any time soon. The TAI Kaan (TF-X) under development will not enter service in numbers perhaps before early-mid 2030's so I raise the chances of Turkey turning to Typhoon. Anyone agree?

new guy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Spitfire9 wrote: 11 May 2023, 15:24
Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on May 10 that the Biden administration will respect his informal veto of a sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70/72s to Turkey, and warned that he will retaliate if any deal is made with Ankara.

The remarks at a conference in Washington about Cyprus show that Menendez does not expect the White House to approve a sale of F-16s to Turkey in exchange for President Recep Erdogan’s approval of Sweden’s bid for NATO membership.
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... n-menendez

Sounds to me like Turkey won't be getting F-16 any time soon. The TAI Kaan (TF-X) under development will not enter service in numbers perhaps before early-mid 2030's so I raise the chances of Turkey turning to Typhoon. Anyone agree?
meh. Do we have the capacity or the desirability?

Dafty
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Dafty »

Typhoon just sauntered over Cardiff.
All on its own.

SD67
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Spitfire9 wrote: 11 May 2023, 15:24
Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on May 10 that the Biden administration will respect his informal veto of a sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70/72s to Turkey, and warned that he will retaliate if any deal is made with Ankara.

The remarks at a conference in Washington about Cyprus show that Menendez does not expect the White House to approve a sale of F-16s to Turkey in exchange for President Recep Erdogan’s approval of Sweden’s bid for NATO membership.
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... n-menendez

Sounds to me like Turkey won't be getting F-16 any time soon. The TAI Kaan (TF-X) under development will not enter service in numbers perhaps before early-mid 2030's so I raise the chances of Turkey turning to Typhoon. Anyone agree?
Normally I'd say no chance, but the politics of that part of the world is so confused at the moment - who knows. Given British involvement in TF-X (incl Rolls JV for the engine), maybe there is an opportunity for a small buy of Typhoon as a lead in. If Turkey cannot buy more F16s, and France are heavily supporting Greece, then who else is there? Russia is out of bounds for a NATO member. Korea are a competitor.

The UK government would certainly be supportive Wallace has been over there a couple of times

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AndyC
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by AndyC »

Wouldn't Germany veto the sale of Typhoon to Turkey?

SD67
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

They'd veto the sale of Soy Beans to the Dalai Lama if they thought it would annoy their energy suppliers

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Poland looking to acquire 2 additional squadrons of multi-role aircraft...in a fairly short timeframe....



Eurofighter is pitching....


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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Poland looking to acquire 2 additional squadrons of multi-role aircraft...in a fairly short timeframe....



Eurofighter is pitching....


Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

Timmymagic wrote: 25 May 2023, 10:51 Poland looking to acquire 2 additional squadrons of multi-role aircraft...in a fairly short timeframe....
Time would have to be of the essence for Typhoon to get a look in. Poland is interested in going down the KF-21 route. KF-21 is scheduled to enter production 2024 with deliveries to the South Korean air force starting 2026.

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation ... 47689.html

If a deal for Typhoon was inked tomorrow when would pilots and maintenance personnel be trained up to the level required and aircraft delivered?

inch
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by inch »

Is the kf 21 a more advanced fighter than the typhoon offering to Poland,more stealthy I'm guessing so able to survive better in the Russian environment? Or is it cheaper than typhoon?,I'm sure someone above my pay grade will tell me

Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

inch wrote: 26 May 2023, 23:03 Is the kf 21 a more advanced fighter than the typhoon offering to Poland,more stealthy I'm guessing so able to survive better in the Russian environment? Or is it cheaper than typhoon?,I'm sure someone above my pay grade will tell me
It definitely has a stealthier form than Typhoon but no internal weapons bay (yet).
I don't know the exact flyaway price of Typhoon or KF-21 but I am almost completely sure that Typhoon is considerably higher.
Poland is interested in KF-21 medium/long term (Poland has offered to buy out Indonesia's stake in KF-21, Indonesia being a delinquent partner when it comes to paying its share of development costs).

I don't think that Typhoon has any real prospects in Poland. If Poland needs an 'emergency' purchase of fighters, I am sure it has Norway and Netherlands' phone number. I think that both those countries could supply retiring F-16 very quickly (if they are not earmarked for Ukraine).

Erdogan is back in power in Turkey. I see Turkey as the only possible European customer for Typhoon - and that only if the US Congress blocks supply of F-16 and/or F-16 upgrades.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Spitfire9 wrote: 29 May 2023, 19:57 I don't think that Typhoon has any real prospects in Poland. If Poland needs an 'emergency' purchase of fighters, I am sure it has Norway and Netherlands' phone number. I think that both those countries could supply retiring F-16 very quickly (if they are not earmarked for Ukraine).
Norway's F-16 have already been sold, principally to Romania.

Netherlands are mainly going to Ukraine...payback for MH-17...

Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

Timmymagic wrote: 29 May 2023, 20:37
Norway's F-16 have already been sold, principally to Romania.
Oops, did not realise they had actually been sold.

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mrclark303
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by mrclark303 »

Spitfire9 wrote: 29 May 2023, 19:57
inch wrote: 26 May 2023, 23:03 Is the kf 21 a more advanced fighter than the typhoon offering to Poland,more stealthy I'm guessing so able to survive better in the Russian environment? Or is it cheaper than typhoon?,I'm sure someone above my pay grade will tell me
It definitely has a stealthier form than Typhoon but no internal weapons bay (yet).
I don't know the exact flyaway price of Typhoon or KF-21 but I am almost completely sure that Typhoon is considerably higher.
Poland is interested in KF-21 medium/long term (Poland has offered to buy out Indonesia's stake in KF-21, Indonesia being a delinquent partner when it comes to paying its share of development costs).

I don't think that Typhoon has any real prospects in Poland. If Poland needs an 'emergency' purchase of fighters, I am sure it has Norway and Netherlands' phone number. I think that both those countries could supply retiring F-16 very quickly (if they are not earmarked for Ukraine).

Erdogan is back in power in Turkey. I see Turkey as the only possible European customer for Typhoon - and that only if the US Congress blocks supply of F-16 and/or F-16 upgrades.
Let's not overlook the USAF F16C's piling into Davis Monthan for storage as F35A deliveries gather pace.

They are admittedly older variants, as the more capable later blocks have gone to the ANG, with their earlier Block 30 machines going to store.

Should Poland ( any other NATO country) or Ukraine possibly require them, they could be refurbished, modernised and reused.

The point being that the F16 in all its forms, is still quite capable and even the earliest F16A can still be comprehensively upgraded and turned into an extremely capable machine.

Perhaps the RAF should just buy a batch to!

Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

Greek diaspora moves against Turkey's F-16 purchase
https://www.savunmasanayist.com/yunan-d ... rsi-hamle/

If Typhoon is considered as the most likely alternative to F-16 for Turkey, delay in securing Congress approval for further F-16 supply keeps Typhoon selection chances alive.

However... the TAI KAAN project appears to be moving forwards apace with projected first flight having moved from 2025 to 2024 and now to 2023. The earlier the KAAN can be delivered, the less the need for 4G fighters to bolster the Turkish Air Force.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Using which engine I wonder? The Rolls / Kale engine hasn't started development yet. I don't see how Turkey avoids an interim fighter purchase, whether it is Typhoon or something else.

Anthony58
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Anthony58 »

Aviation Week 8-21 May 2023 article, the initial engine is the General Electric F110, used on Turkey's F-16s.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

SD67 wrote: 13 Jun 2023, 09:26 Using which engine I wonder? The Rolls / Kale engine hasn't started development yet. I don't see how Turkey avoids an interim fighter purchase, whether it is Typhoon or something else.
I don't see any other alternative to Typhoon but I think Eurofighter (and respective governments) need to get on with things or else the opportunity for a sale will slip away. In Eurofighter's shoes I would make Turkey an offer it cannot refuse - having first cleared unofficially that no partner government will block a sale.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by dmereifield »

Spitfire9 wrote: 13 Jun 2023, 10:07
SD67 wrote: 13 Jun 2023, 09:26 Using which engine I wonder? The Rolls / Kale engine hasn't started development yet. I don't see how Turkey avoids an interim fighter purchase, whether it is Typhoon or something else.
I don't see any other alternative to Typhoon but I think Eurofighter (and respective governments) need to get on with things or else the opportunity for a sale will slip away. In Eurofighter's shoes I would make Turkey an offer it cannot refuse - having first cleared unofficially that no partner government will block a sale.
If Turkey and Saudi Arabia don't make a sign up before Sir Keir come in it will never happen

SD67
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Spitfire9 wrote: 13 Jun 2023, 10:07
SD67 wrote: 13 Jun 2023, 09:26 Using which engine I wonder? The Rolls / Kale engine hasn't started development yet. I don't see how Turkey avoids an interim fighter purchase, whether it is Typhoon or something else.
I don't see any other alternative to Typhoon but I think Eurofighter (and respective governments) need to get on with things or else the opportunity for a sale will slip away. In Eurofighter's shoes I would make Turkey an offer it cannot refuse - having first cleared unofficially that no partner government will block a sale.
We’ll if Germany try and block it in the current environment then questions really do need to be asked ie whose side are they on

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by NickC »

Timmymagic wrote: 13 Jun 2023, 17:09
Confirmed by Defense Aerospace, Germany's BAAINBw has selected Saab’s Arexis EW system for its 15 Eurofighter Typhoon Electronic Warfare (EW) aircraft.
Saab Arexis uses GaN AESA arrays with ultra-wideband receivers and Digital Radio Frequency Memories, emphasises on use of AI, its air-launched decoys to deceive a wide range of threats with network connectivity to detect and suppress the threats with ability to jam anti-stealth radars.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/saabs ... e-variant/

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Going to be interesting to see if the German's place an order for Spear and Spear-EW soon as well....they're about to order Brimstone 3 for their Typhoon....and all the Typhoon ECR, then EK, images had Spear mounted on a triple rack...

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