Section Infantry Weapons

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
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mrclark303
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by mrclark303 »

leonard wrote: 21 May 2023, 15:18 Another customer to the list for the H&K 416 A7 rifle.
(This is the KSK/special forces rifle not the A8 the new standard Bundeswehr rifle )
The HK 416 was often tipping as the next UK standard service rifle, but since then Colt Canada has pipped them to the post to become the 'limited' standard rifle.

The A3 rebuild of the L85, takes care of the bulk of the Armed forces in the interim.

This combination comfortably takes us to 2030, when we will probably go with the new US calibre.
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Jackstar »

DE&S secure hundreds of advanced anti-drone weapon sights for British soldiers.
https://des.mod.uk/des-secure-hundreds- ... -soldiers/
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Little J
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Little J »

Things are progressing...



Poiuytrewq
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Poiuytrewq »

If they want to add lethality why not choose a 5.56 rifle capable of handling hybrid chamber pressures?

It’s velocity that defeats body armour.

mr.fred
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by mr.fred »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 12:27 It’s velocity that defeats body armour.
Depends on the armour.
Velocity can also defeat the bullet

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Little J »

mr.fred wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 19:43
Poiuytrewq wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 12:27 It’s velocity that defeats body armour.
Depends on the armour.
Velocity can also defeat the bullet
And the barrel...


Interesting that 6.8 isn't being considered

Little J
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Little J »

A bit more from Drummond... L400?


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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Poiuytrewq »

mr.fred wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 19:43
Poiuytrewq wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 12:27 It’s velocity that defeats body armour.
Depends on the armour.
Velocity can also defeat the bullet
Not if it’s constructed properly which is the easiest part of the equation to achieve.

Constructing a 5.56 bullet to achieve a velocity increase of 300-400fps is very straightforward without any problems with bullets disintegrating on impact.

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

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Little J wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 20:09 And the barrel...
Easily changed if required.

The ability to fire hybrid ammo with higher velocities, flatter trajectory, decreased wind drift, better penetration and increased stopping power is a bonus but it does not need to be fired routinely to extend barrel life.

Having the ability and not using it is much than not having the ability.

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by RunningStrong »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 22:10
Little J wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 20:09 And the barrel...
Easily changed if required.

The ability to fire hybrid ammo with higher velocities, flatter trajectory, decreased wind drift, better penetration and increased stopping power is a bonus but it does not need to be fired routinely to extend barrel life.

Having the ability and not using it is much than not having the ability.
But if you don't train with it and you have a round that is ballistically very different then is it effective?

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Poiuytrewq »

RunningStrong wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 22:26 But if you don't train with it and you have a round that is ballistically very different then is it effective?
Within normal ranges a 10% change in velocity will not make a huge difference in terms of practical trajectories but it would shoot flatter, drift less and hit harder, it would also improve the penetration performance of the round.

I’m not suggesting it would be an absolute game changer but it would undoubtedly be an improvement if defeating body armour is a priority.

leonard
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by leonard »

Dose anybody have any recent news on how the project Hunter is going or we are speculating to much with the official publication below ??????

Little J
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

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leonard wrote: 08 Jul 2023, 14:03 Dose anybody have any recent news on how the project Hunter...
I did post a tweet from Drummond, but it appears he has deleted it. According to him the Knights Armaments KS-1 has been selected and will be known as the L400A1.

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mrclark303
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by mrclark303 »

Little J wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 20:09
mr.fred wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 19:43
Poiuytrewq wrote: 05 Jul 2023, 12:27 It’s velocity that defeats body armour.
Depends on the armour.
Velocity can also defeat the bullet
And the barrel...


Interesting that 6.8 isn't being considered
Watch this space, Labour will likely form the next government, so that might all change, personally I think we should make the jump to 6.8 X 51mm in 2030.

No crashing hurry, the current service L85A3 ( triggers broom) rebuild has just replaced worn recivers, coupled on going replacement of worn barrels and bolt groups etc and the A3 has years ahead of it...

Only the TMH of the original Enfied and Nottingham manufactured rifles remains...

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by mr.fred »

mrclark303 wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 19:26 personally I think we should make the jump to 6.8 X 51mm in 2030.
Yes, you've been quite clear.
I however, remain cautious about the success of US small arms programmes.

If the US gets it into service and proven in use, then I'd consider trialling it, dependent on a whole bunch of conditions such as licensing of the ammunition and technologies. Even if 6.8x51 does end up as a NATO calibre you might end up with a M193 vs M855 situation.
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Little J »

I've seen a few interviews with US former SF who have tried it, they pretty much all see it as a return to the "Battle" rifle days and expect it to be relegated to the DMR role sooner rather than later.
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

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Little J wrote: 09 Jul 2023, 20:30 I've seen a few interviews with US former SF who have tried it, they pretty much all see it as a return to the "Battle" rifle days and expect it to be relegated to the DMR role sooner rather than later.
It's interesting isn't it, my point being we aren't in any crashing hurry with our A3 rebuilds. We can see how the land lies in 2030.

AR variants have long been the staple of our SF community, they are now being procured for the Royal Marines and Rangers and I would expect the Parachute Regiment to follow.

On the subject of AR's, I've some familiarity with the platform, but haven't looked at Knight Armament examples, having done a little research on them over the weekend, they do look to be really excellent platforms, the ultimate gas imprisonment variants, apparently capable of sub MOA accuracy too!

Sub MOA accuracy as delivered is quite the claim from a battle rifle and I would like to see that proven!

They certainly look like the AR to beat.

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by leonard »

And for the new episode of the Law&Order series the news below.
H&K did not like at all the Finish and Sweden decision for the new Sako rifle and has now gone to court to stop everything.
Seen the precedents the next British Army rifle will have to pas through the court system process review more then the M.O.D !!!!!
Your opinion are welcome???

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Timmymagic »

Good thread from Gabi on new sighting systems for MG's and GMG's

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

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Little J
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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Little J »

More lethal???

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Little J wrote: 07 Sep 2023, 11:16 More lethal???
If looks could kill?

Hopefully the uppers/barrels can be exchanged when NATO finally settles on a new intermediate 6.5/6.8 cartridge.

The 6.5x43 LICC looks particularly interesting.

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

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Re: Section Infantry Weapons

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Little J wrote: 07 Sep 2023, 11:16 More lethal???
I'm assuming they are referring to the fancy optic setup...

The rifle is obviously no more 'lethal' than the current L85A3, but it's lighter, simpler and obviously has all the benefits of the AR platform, all wrapped up in the ultimate gas impingement variation.

Knights Armament make a superb AR...

It has a UK connection, as Edger Brothers are assembling them from kits in the UK before probably going to Birmingham for proof.

That requires no great skills, as anyone who knows the platform will tell you, easy to strip to component parts and assemble.

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