Scotland (Political Thread)

[TheLoneRanger]

I think, by ignoring a possibile Scottish exit, the UK goverment is making sure it happens. It cannot continue to put its head in the sand and pretend all is ok and nothing is going on.

The UK should make it clear that independence means :

- No common travel area between an independent Scotland and the rUK. (Since there is no Peace to preserve like Island of Ireland or Belfast agreement, then there is no need to offer this). There will be a hard border. More so, as we dont want EU laws to become effective in the UK through the backdoor via a seperation framework with Scotland!!!!!!
- Scotland will have to pay its share of the debt in Sterling.
- Scotland does not inherit any portion of UK institutions? ie similar to the UK leaving the EU and not getting any share.
- Scotland will have to build its own defence - there will be no rUK defence coverage for Scotland - not even in exchange for a finanical yearly contribution.
- All trade will be on WTO terms unless Scotland joins
- Trade will not include a services trade deal for either an independent scotland, or if it is part of the EU.
- A seperation vote must have a minimum of 50% of voters, with a 2/3rd majority to make it legal.
- All UK defence manufacturing institutions will be relocated to the UK.
- An independent Scotland cannot use sterling.
- An independent Scotland will not get access to UK institutions, eg BBC. They will have to create their own from scratch.
- An independent Scotland will not have the Bank of England as a lender of last resort, or have loans backed by the Bank of England.
- There will be no transition period for Scottish Independence. Everything stops on the day of leaving the UK.
- All UK goverment jobs in Scotland will be relocated to the UK - or they will need to be transitioned to
- Since pensions are paid from current taxes(there is no pot for pensions), Scotland will have to pay for its own pensions. Nothing from the UK.

Right now - the Scottish nats can make up any claim and pass it of as legitimate and correct which creates a false. Scots need to understand what independence looks like. That is the only thing that will get past the SNP propagandea.

We all should look how did Canada successfully managed Quebecs independence drive, to see how the UK should manage it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -the-dream

[ArmChairCivvy]

Scots need to understand what independence looks like. That is the only thing that will get past the SNP propagandea.

The point I was trying to make - obviously v badly.

pay its share of the debt in Sterling.

No funny monies

no rUK defence coverage for Scotland - not even in exchange for a finanical yearly contribution.

How about offering air defence cover in exchange for keeping the SBAs for our boats?

will not get access to UK institutions, eg BBC

... and I thought this was a golden opportunity to send back all the luvvies who replaced 'Queens' English' speakers overnight - boy! what a shock that was

[ArmChairCivvy]

The IFS continues with other aspects (they have provided an update to the fiscal projection):

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/fig%201%20scotland.png

The horizontal line (for 3%) which is defined in the EU stability pact would be reached (within a reasonable time frame by spending £15 bn less; I haven't checked how big part of that is currently covered thru the Barnett Formula).

Further, to join, any country would have to have its own currency (£ may have issuing banks in Scotland, but that does not meet the criterion).

Some hard work, then. Plug the fiscal gap while also building up the reserves to be able to manage own currency... before aspiring to join the euro.

[jonas]

Defence IT Services.

I suppose there is a method in the madness. Create more jobs, that in the event of independence will need to be moved south of the border. Therefore, vote for independence and lose your jobs.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/high ... -in-europe

[ArmChairCivvy]

I understand your concern, but in the light of several bases closing in Scotland, this sounds/ looks quite good:
"Located close to the defence sites of RAF Lossiemouth and Kinloss Barracks, the skills and experience of ex-service personnel are also being utilised with 20 already recruited, and that number is expected to grow. "

[dmereifield]

Defence IT Services.

I suppose there is a method in the madness. Create more jobs, that in the event of independence will need to be moved south of the border. Therefore, vote for independence and lose your jobs.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/high ... -in-europe

If you want to keep the Union together then you must show the benefit of being in the Union. By withdrawing such benefits from Scotland you only increase the chances of succession

[Scimitar54]

Make sure Scots resident in all parts of the UK also get to vote in a referendum.

[ArmChairCivvy]

in the light of several bases closing in Scotland, this sounds/ looks quite good:
"Located close to the defence sites of RAF Lossiemouth and Kinloss Barracks

I didn't have the link (what my reference was with regard to) to hand, but here goes:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/troops- ... n-planned/

Note 'net zero' near Kinloss

[SKB]

CNN goes to wrong Scottish city for COP26 conference


CNN idiots went to Edinburgh, not Glasgow for COP26...

[Scimitar54]

Don’t tell me ……… They empty-chaired everyone ! They did not turn up, so the situation cannot be that serious !

[SKB]

Supreme Court rejects SNP's IndyRef2 plans

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-63727562

[R686]

Supreme Court rejects SNP's IndyRef2 plans

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-63727562

What I did find interesting was the bit about not being able to use the international law for becoming independent.

I notice that some pro independent supporters are now saying that they are a colony of England, UK is a prison for the Scottish and not democratic. But have they forgotten that the England just like the other nation/states can’t just up and leave either, England also would have to have a bill to become independent also

But the Supreme Court ruled that they are not a colony or repressed society so that route is not applicable as well


It’s not different to Australia when it became a federation.


The Preamble to the Constitution states that the Australian federation is 'indissoluble' – not able to be broken.

the Australian Constitution states

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - PREAMBLE

WHEREAS the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and under the Constitution hereby established:

And whereas it is expedient to provide for the admission into the Commonwealth of other Australasian Colonies and possessions of the Queen:

Be it therefore enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:--

[SKB]

Why NATO's Biggest Weakness Is Scotland

(RealLifeLore) 13th December 2022

[serge750]

interesting....perhaps if sadley scotland left a deal could be done to lease a little of the outer hebrides....would scotland be allowed into NATO if they left the UK?

[tomuk]

interesting....perhaps if sadley scotland left a deal could be done to lease a little of the outer hebrides....would scotland be allowed into NATO if they left the UK?

Well the Outer Hebrides voted No in the independence referendum 53.4% and the Orkneys (67.2%) and Shetland (63.7%) voted even more NO

[mrclark303]

interesting....perhaps if sadley scotland left a deal could be done to lease a little of the outer hebrides....would scotland be allowed into NATO if they left the UK?

Well the Outer Hebrides voted No in the independence referendum 53.4% and the Orkneys (67.2%) and Shetland (63.7%) voted even more NO

It's a curious thing, the SNP really are a one trick pony and that tricks been taken away, so what are you left with????

They have no substance, no way of funding an independent Scotland without immediate EU membership and massive bailouts ( they won't get, that's been clear to them), they can't even run their devolved responsibilities properly now, it's a real shit show....

Yet their supporters can't get enough of them, like Lemmings they are lined up, painted smiling faces, ready to jump off the cliff, Scottish flag fluttering as they free fall towards doom..

Nowt as queer as folk, as my granny always used to say....

[R686]

I have come across a pro Scottish independence blog called Scot goes pop in which the mention all the political parties

But someone keeps reply with “WGD numpties”

I figured out what numpties mean but what does WGD refer to. I tried to post a reply to no avail

Anyone know what they would be meaning?

[SKB]

NICOLA STURGEON RESIGNS!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... =editorial
Fan-dabi-dozi!

[TheLoneRanger]

NICOLA STURGEON RESIGNS!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... =editorial
Fan-dabi-dozi!

Made my day - hopefully Scotland gets a leader who wants to govern and look after the scottish people and not follow a personal agenda for their own glorification and place in the annals of "Scottish History"...

[TheLoneRanger]

NICOLA STURGEON RESIGNS!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... =editorial
Fan-dabi-dozi!

Made my day - hopefully Scotland gets a leader who wants to govern and look after the scottish people and not follow a personal agenda for their own glorification and place in the annals of "Scottish History"...

I wonder if we will find out why she suddenly jumped, I suppose it will come out in the next week or so.
Another scandal, no doubt jumped before she was pushed by someone.....

[SKB]

[R686]

I found this quote from Kate Forbes very interesting

So having access to that huge single market, but also having sort of streamlined and accessible relationships or trading relationships with the rest of the UK.

Does she not realise that the UK is still the official sovereign government of NI.

So if Scotland became independent then the trade relationship with the UK becomes the TCA.

If the EU forced a customs border to protect the single market in NI there is no sea border between England and Scotland only one place the EU will tell Scotland to place it to protect the single market

Naive at best


https://www.thenational.scot/news/23394 ... ed-brexit/

[mrclark303]

I found this quote from Kate Forbes very interesting

So having access to that huge single market, but also having sort of streamlined and accessible relationships or trading relationships with the rest of the UK.

Does she not realise that the UK is still the official sovereign government of NI.

So if Scotland became independent then the trade relationship with the UK becomes the TCA.

If the EU forced a customs border to protect the single market in NI there is no sea border between England and Scotland only one place the EU will tell Scotland to place it to protect the single market

Naive at best


https://www.thenational.scot/news/23394 ... ed-brexit/

The SNP is like a broken record isn't it, a real one trick pony, I think they are actually starting to bore themselves with this sort of nonsense that doesn't even pass the most fleeting of glances

I hope Labour manage to make inroads back into SNP territory and put the SNP to bed, they have done a tremendous amount of damage to Scotland during their tenure.

[Caribbean]

An interesting take on the SNP and it's current "issues"

https://robinmcalpine.org/but-why-would ... of-snp-hq/

[R686]

Humza Yousaf Is the new SNP leader, so I take it he is also the new FM?

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/humza-yo ... n-12843363


Also I noticed on a blog that I read to get a idea about what’s going on with Scottish Independence (Scot goes pop)

He seems to be having a bit of a melt down over the selection

So wonder what people’s reaction is on here