Australian Defence Force

[R686]

Exclusive: MAJGEN King sets record straight on Black Hawk acquisition

https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/land- ... cquisition

Interesting titbits out of it

operating costs reduced by a third

1x MRH compared to 3x UH-60M in a C-17

MRH must have been a big girl if only one can fit in a C17

[TheLoneRanger]

No concrete news or announcements of the deal yet ..


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ne-program

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/13/euro ... index.html

[SW1]

[Mercator]

[Mercator]

[R686]

Not exactly sure if the three US boats are new builds or second hand

so far sems promising, so much for Astute production in Australia

[SKB]

SSN AUKUS Project announced & Australia to buy three Virginia Class submarines


(Sky News (UK)) 14th March 2023

U.S President Joe Biden, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese discuss the Australia-United Kingdom-United States (AUKUS) partnership at the Naval Base Point Loma, San Diego.

(Sky News Australia) 14th March 2023

Australia is about to begin one of its biggest and most important military challenges since World War II and new key details have been confirmed regarding the delivery and timeline of the AUKUS program.

(Sky News Australia) 14th March 2023

South Australian Premier Peter Malinauskas says workers from the state will go to the UK and US to observe the nuclear shipbuilding production facilities.

This comes as Australia is set to receive eight nuclear-powered submarines in a historic AUKUS security deal that will cost taxpayers somewhere between $268 billion and $368 billion.

The boats will be based on a British design and are set to be built in Adelaide, with the first to be completed in just under two decades, around 2042.

“In the mediate future, it’s about constructing the shipyards - we’ve got the skills to be able to do that,” Mr Malinauskas told Sky News Australia.

“Then also starting to take some of our existing naval shipbuilding workforce, putting them in the US and UK so they can come back here sooner rather than later.”

[tomuk]

so far sems promising, so much for Astute production in Australia

Actual Astute was never going to happen as there are no more PWR2 reactors.

[Zeno]

What could be interesting for the R.A.N is the Virginia class blocks selected for the R.A.N, their capabilities can be different and may have different bells and whistles to the AUKUS boat ,its not known which block of the Virginia class has been selected could expect some block 3 but they are not being built anymore but block iv,s are?

[Halidon]

What could be interesting for the R.A.N is the Virginia class blocks selected for the R.A.N, their capabilities can be different and may have different bells and whistles to the AUKUS boat ,its not known which block of the Virginia class has been selected could expect some block 3 but they are not being built anymore but block iv,s are?

The intention seems to be for Australian industry to get experience working on nukes starting with the "used" 774s that are sent to Oz. So the boats chosen will be among those ready for the extended docking selected restricted availability (EDSRA) (which VA boats currently get every 6 years) in the timeframe desired and have have the Aussies do that refit. I would rule out Block V boats with the VPM, which I doubt the USN would give up, and the early blocks would have less life left and have too many differences (different VLS and bow sonar) to any new-construction boats the Aussies would receive. Blocks III and IV, as well as the single Block V completed without the VPM, would all seem to be candidates, depending which hit the refit window.

[SKB]

How will Australia cope with decommissioning a Virginia class submarine (and reactor) when SSN Aukus boats become operational?

[Zeno]

The plan is that radioactive material will be stored on defence sites for the actual decommissioning or disassembly there has not been any discussion an interesting learning curve another question is about the building of dry docks for the submarines per maintenance ,the U.S.N has some issues with its own drydocks Australia as part of the deal is kicking in some money to help address this

[Mercator]

Possible Tomahawk missile sale:

[Zeno]

I understand this type of Tomahawk can only be fired from surface ships like the Hobart class and are not the variant that can be fired from submarines unfortunately .
It could be interesting that under the AUKUS deal Virginia class submarines would be sold to the R.A.N in the 2030,s ( from two to five if required) in the latter stages of the Collins class upgrade L.O.T.E ,during this period of time crews may be trained to transition from Collins to Virginia classes (guessing) but are the Collins class submarines then to be surplus to requirements?

[R686]

I understand this type of Tomahawk can only be fired from surface ships like the Hobart class and are not the variant that can be fired from submarines unfortunately .
It could be interesting that under the AUKUS deal Virginia class submarines would be sold to the R.A.N in the 2030,s ( from two to five if required) in the latter stages of the Collins class upgrade L.O.T.E ,during this period of time crews may be trained to transition from Collins to Virginia classes (guessing) but are the Collins class submarines then to be surplus to requirements?

There is now talk of getting tomahawk for the Collins class as well. But I imagine that will be once they start going through LOTE
And them from others its only a software upgrade to the CMS on Collins as it is a version from the Virginia class. I am also wondering if there is a need for all 6 to go through LOTE if we end up with 5 nucs by 2040 from the US

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/au ... r-AA18PcM7

[Zeno]

But that is still a lot of Tomahawks for only three destroyers ,and if you are not going to have some submarines to fire them for several years by which time they are not the most advanced block or even type?

[R686]

But that is still a lot of Tomahawks for only three destroyers ,and if you are not going to have some submarines to fire them for several years by which time they are not the most advanced block or even type?

Eventually it's not just going to be three, Hunters will also have the capability. And unless the ADF jumps the queue I can't see the ADF stocks start arriving until between 2027-30. I would also hazard a guess that once the LOTE happens some of these for the these will be modified for sub launched use. that's just a guess on my part.

The US only in December announced a deal for 111 additional missiles plus we have Japan with its 400 on order now the ADF with 220


But geezz I really hope they don't call the first boat HMAS AUKUS

[Zeno]

I am lead to believe this version of the Tomahawk cannot be fired from torpedo tubes and is not the UGM -109
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/ne ... -australia

[R686]

I am lead to believe this version of the Tomahawk cannot be fired from torpedo tubes and is not the UGM -109
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/ne ... -australia

That’s right but that’s not to say they cannot change the order midstream

The first boat to go under LOTE is in 2026 so would imagine it would be around 2029 for it to hit the water again. From another forum it’s a software change within the CMS not hardware

https://www.defence.gov.au/about/taskfo ... submarines

Edit

Just saw this

News yesterday that our Collins Class submarines will get fitted with Tomahawks reveals a serious lack of understanding about the tactical use of land attack missiles on submarines. Exposing the blithe war enthusiasts of the Murdoch press, former submariner Rex Patrick explains why Tomahawks on a Collins is a dumb idea.

https://michaelwest.com.au/marles-the-d ... ing-waste/

[Mercator]

[Mercator]

The Kiwis visiting RAAF Edinburgh, South Australia, with their first aircraft, probably to make use of the various simulators.

In March of 2023, the Royal New Zealand Air Force P-8A Poseidon aircraft visited RAAF Base Edinburgh for the first time. This visit saw the Royal New Zealand Air Force working alongside their Australian counterparts in Adelaide, South Australia, with their new platform. In 2018 the New Zealand Government announced it would purchase four Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft from the United States Government. The four aircraft replace six P-3K2 Orion maritime patrol aircraft that the Royal New Zealand Air Force has operated since the 1960s. The last P-3K2s retired on 31 January 2023. The first P-8A Poseidon arrived in New Zealand on 12 December 2022. The remaining three Poseidon will arrive in mid-2023.

[Mercator]