Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Jake1992
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jake1992 »

Ron5 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 15:57 I'd guess a helicopter based system will replace Crowsnest. Maybe unmanned. Probably a derivative of the Merlin ASW replacement. But a couple of decades away at the earliest.
Why a helicopter based system especially if it’s unmanaged ?
One of the most important factors of ship based AEW is the altitude they can get to ( higher they can go further they can see ), when we look at what’s already here we have most helos max is around 16,000ft, Hawk eyes max is around 32,000ft and the V-247 is meant to have a max of around 25,000.

Hawkeyes not an option too big too heavy but why choose a helo option even unmanned ( they’re not going to suddenly have much great max ) over the incoming unmanned tilt rotors look at over 50% extra ??

Little J
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Little J »

V-247 would appear to be the best option. Maybe we should start getting involved in it's development now?

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

:D NA the best current option would be E2 Hawkeye :D "but computer ( gov ) says no" :D :mrgreen: sorry had to...seriously though the V 280 type or a STOL with a heigher service ceiling has got be on the cards......
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Little J »

Looks good.

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Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Jake1992 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 16:15
Ron5 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 15:57 I'd guess a helicopter based system will replace Crowsnest. Maybe unmanned. Probably a derivative of the Merlin ASW replacement. But a couple of decades away at the earliest.
Why a helicopter based system especially if it’s unmanaged ?
One of the most important factors of ship based AEW is the altitude they can get to ( higher they can go further they can see ), when we look at what’s already here we have most helos max is around 16,000ft, Hawk eyes max is around 32,000ft and the V-247 is meant to have a max of around 25,000.

Hawkeyes not an option too big too heavy but why choose a helo option even unmanned ( they’re not going to suddenly have much great max ) over the incoming unmanned tilt rotors look at over 50% extra ??
Sorry, missed your question from the other day.

Three answers,

1) I include tilt rotors in my definition of a helicopter. I thought everybody did?

2) I can't see the RN funding the development of a brand new airborne AEW for the 3 or 4 that it would order. I also don't see any other country developing one that can be flown off a STOVL carrier

3) The same financial/operational logic that had them ending up with Merlin Crowsnest will still be valid when Merlin gets replaced, hence my suggestion of Merlin-replacement Crowsnest

Yes, I know the RN have a slide showing an unmanned winged AEW in their future but that's just a slide right now as far as we know.

Jake1992
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jake1992 »

Ron5 wrote: 13 Jan 2023, 13:59
Jake1992 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 16:15
Ron5 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 15:57 I'd guess a helicopter based system will replace Crowsnest. Maybe unmanned. Probably a derivative of the Merlin ASW replacement. But a couple of decades away at the earliest.
Why a helicopter based system especially if it’s unmanaged ?
One of the most important factors of ship based AEW is the altitude they can get to ( higher they can go further they can see ), when we look at what’s already here we have most helos max is around 16,000ft, Hawk eyes max is around 32,000ft and the V-247 is meant to have a max of around 25,000.

Hawkeyes not an option too big too heavy but why choose a helo option even unmanned ( they’re not going to suddenly have much great max ) over the incoming unmanned tilt rotors look at over 50% extra ??
Sorry, missed your question from the other day.

Three answers,

1) I include tilt rotors in my definition of a helicopter. I thought everybody did?

2) I can't see the RN funding the development of a brand new airborne AEW for the 3 or 4 that it would order. I also don't see any other country developing one that can be flown off a STOVL carrier

3) The same financial/operational logic that had them ending up with Merlin Crowsnest will still be valid when Merlin gets replaced, hence my suggestion of Merlin-replacement Crowsnest

Yes, I know the RN have a slide showing an unmanned winged AEW in their future but that's just a slide right now as far as we know.
That’s quite alright we’ve all missed stuff before -

1 - I had the opposite thinking to you on that thinking most separated them in to individual categories.

2 - this is where as often I come back to the V-247, one of the vairients is an AEW version. With the USMC supposedly once again restarting their interest and persuit of the aircraft we wouldn’t have to fund it alone. I do believe we’d need closer 10 or so AEW replacement to really allow 24/7 cover to both carriers when needed and cover potential lose.

3 - with the USMC once again opting for V-247 and the other variants they have that could be of interest and use to us such as the attack version which would give any ship with a Merlin sized hanger a protector style capability or the electronic warfare version which offers the carriers a capability they lack at the moment. These options along with the coast being driven down by the USMC could change thinking around this.
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Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Jake1992 wrote: 13 Jan 2023, 18:59
Ron5 wrote: 13 Jan 2023, 13:59
Jake1992 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 16:15
Ron5 wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 15:57 I'd guess a helicopter based system will replace Crowsnest. Maybe unmanned. Probably a derivative of the Merlin ASW replacement. But a couple of decades away at the earliest.
Why a helicopter based system especially if it’s unmanaged ?
One of the most important factors of ship based AEW is the altitude they can get to ( higher they can go further they can see ), when we look at what’s already here we have most helos max is around 16,000ft, Hawk eyes max is around 32,000ft and the V-247 is meant to have a max of around 25,000.

Hawkeyes not an option too big too heavy but why choose a helo option even unmanned ( they’re not going to suddenly have much great max ) over the incoming unmanned tilt rotors look at over 50% extra ??
Sorry, missed your question from the other day.

Three answers,

1) I include tilt rotors in my definition of a helicopter. I thought everybody did?

2) I can't see the RN funding the development of a brand new airborne AEW for the 3 or 4 that it would order. I also don't see any other country developing one that can be flown off a STOVL carrier

3) The same financial/operational logic that had them ending up with Merlin Crowsnest will still be valid when Merlin gets replaced, hence my suggestion of Merlin-replacement Crowsnest

Yes, I know the RN have a slide showing an unmanned winged AEW in their future but that's just a slide right now as far as we know.
That’s quite alright we’ve all missed stuff before -

1 - I had the opposite thinking to you on that thinking most separated them in to individual categories.

2 - this is where as often I come back to the V-247, one of the vairients is an AEW version. With the USMC supposedly once again restarting their interest and persuit of the aircraft we wouldn’t have to fund it alone. I do believe we’d need closer 10 or so AEW replacement to really allow 24/7 cover to both carriers when needed and cover potential lose.

3 - with the USMC once again opting for V-247 and the other variants they have that could be of interest and use to us such as the attack version which would give any ship with a Merlin sized hanger a protector style capability or the electronic warfare version which offers the carriers a capability they lack at the moment. These options along with the coast being driven down by the USMC could change thinking around this.
Absolutely, the USMC developing such an aircraft would be a game changer for the RN.

Digger22
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Digger22 »

Or, how much are we spending on Wedgetail, How much has Crowsnest cost, How much does a Hawkeye cost, and how much would it have actually cost to put a single waist steam cat and arrestor gear on QE class.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by downsizer »

Some of the fantasy pish that gets poasted here is unreal!
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Zeno wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 00:26 Is this a practical solution for the carriers with Sky Guardians?
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/sk ... 09.article
https://www.ga-asi.com/a-new-short-fiel ... mq-9b-stol
No.

bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

Good article on PWLS in the Times about her recent battles.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbf0 ... 3cbf187e8f
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Bring Deeps »

What is noticeable in all of these articles is how little discussion there has been as to who was responsible for the defective pipework and shaft coupling.

Criticising the RN for something they had no control over is perverse and like blaming the victim.

Someone must know which of the Aircraft Carrier Alliance partners/sub-contractors built/assembled the kit that failed but no-one has named and shamed them.

Let's just hope that the contract allowed the MOD to claim compensation. Even if it did you can't put a price on bad PR, damage to sailors' careers and disruption to defence planning.
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

bobp wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 08:50 Good article on PWLS in the Times about her recent battles.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbf0 ... 3cbf187e8f
Indeed, initial intro a bit misleading as it suggests she has been in situ for all the 3 years, she has done some sea mileage.

However, nipper will be home soonish, though we are planning on him being back in bonny Scotland when it's warmer this year again.
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jdam »

Dockyard sources told The Times that it would be fixed and back on the water in a matter of weeks, by the end of February, but it was then due to undergo “months” of maintenance work about 500 miles away in Portsmouth.
From the article.

Part of me wonders if a small deployment to the med would help shake off criticisms and build some confidence before she went in for the "Months of Maintenance" but I suspect delays to the Maintenance would be just as damning. :problem:
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Deleted because video removed from YouTube

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

PhillyJ wrote: 22 Jan 2023, 20:15
bobp wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 08:50 Good article on PWLS in the Times about her recent battles.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbf0 ... 3cbf187e8f
Indeed, initial intro a bit misleading as it suggests she has been in situ for all the 3 years, she has done some sea mileage.

However, nipper will be home soonish, though we are planning on him being back in bonny Scotland when it's warmer this year again.
Warmer at home or in Scotland? Two very different things :D
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

QNLZ off out late afternoon today, rumours she has been fitted with a tow bar to drag PWLS back to port are unconfirmed by the MOD. :shh:
Screenshot_20230129-130134.png
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »




Off for a months training
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

Image
Image
Image
(@HMSQNLZ) 29th January 2023
What a sight! Spectacular Spinnaker in full view as we exit Portsmouth Harbour. Farewell Portsmouth - see you again soon!


(Forces News) 30th January 2023
The flagship of the Royal Navy has embarked on a "routine exercise and routine training", according to Navy bosses. Despite her leaving after dark, hundreds of well-wishers turned up and lined up along the walls to see her off.
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Boats away
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

HMS Prince of Wales Had two faulty couplings..................

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

bobp wrote: 31 Jan 2023, 16:03 HMS Prince of Wales Had two faulty couplings..................

Indeed, nipper was expecting to be back up in Rosyth not long after returning to Pompey once the starboard shaft was fixed.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

Meeting of defence select committee discussing navy programs including PWLS


https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... a16953ae4e

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