MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Timmymagic
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

leonard wrote: 21 Nov 2022, 13:41 We have now visual confirmation of the new deliveries of the MBDA Brimstone 2 from the UK to the Ukrainian military not just older version of the missile
Bit peeved they didn't credit me...because I told them a week ago..

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by leonard »

And the official M.O.D confirmation of the Brimstone 2 missile deliveries to the Ukrainian Army.
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Timmymagic
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

With Spain purchasing Brimstone for their Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoon the number of users has increased... This will be the Brimstone 3 variant, presumably the, almost finished, new 3B.

43m EUR is not a huge amount. Suspect with documentation, manuals, training, mounts, test equipment, support etc etc.. its a c200 missile purchase.

This will mean Brimstone users are/will be:

United Kingdom
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Poland
Spain
Oman

It will be interesting if Brimstone will start to pick up momentum following the Ukraine War...it would help if the AAC integrated it on Apache somewhat...

Germany is often quoted, after people refer to Wikipedia, as having Brimstone... but they don't. They did show some interest at one point, but have opted for rebuilt Sidewinder 9L's with a new laser seeker head called LaGS as a short term measure to give them a small munition for their Tornado fleet (probably a sensible short term measure, saves upgrade costs on a platform due to retire in due course). Sometimes people will reference an order placed by the German's for Brimstone, but this was a delivery of a very small number of munitions to assist with the UK's integration effort by the manufacturers, I believe it was around 6 missiles, not all of which will have been 'live'. Nothing since.

EDIT: - 2023...Germany is establishing a production line for Brimstone...apparently for Eurodrone, but it bodes well for Typhon integration and Spear for Typhoon....you never know it might even end up on German helos when Tiger and PARS 3 is withdrawn...

The Germans also ordering SDBII for the 35 F-35A that will replace Tornado on the nuclear mission rather than Spear. At the same time the Typhoon EK keeps getting CGI'd with Spear/Spear-EW...all in all a rather confusing position...
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SD67
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Timmymagic wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 10:14 With Spain purchasing Brimstone for their Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoon the number of users has increased... This will be the Brimstone 3 variant, presumably the, almost finished, new 3B.

43m EUR is not a huge amount. Suspect with documentation, manuals, training, mounts, test equipment, support etc etc.. its a c200 missile purchase.

This will mean Brimstone users are/will be:

United Kingdom
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Poland
Spain
Oman

It will be interesting if Brimstone will start to pick up momentum following the Ukraine War...it would help if the AAC integrated it on Apache somewhat...
Imagine if Brimstone had been integrated with F35 a few years ago, the massive customer base we could sell into. Not that the delay would have anything to do with industrial interests

SW1
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

SD67 wrote: 06 Jan 2023, 09:32
Timmymagic wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 10:14 With Spain purchasing Brimstone for their Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoon the number of users has increased... This will be the Brimstone 3 variant, presumably the, almost finished, new 3B.

43m EUR is not a huge amount. Suspect with documentation, manuals, training, mounts, test equipment, support etc etc.. its a c200 missile purchase.

This will mean Brimstone users are/will be:

United Kingdom
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Poland
Spain
Oman

It will be interesting if Brimstone will start to pick up momentum following the Ukraine War...it would help if the AAC integrated it on Apache somewhat...
Imagine if Brimstone had been integrated with F35 a few years ago, the massive customer base we could sell into. Not that the delay would have anything to do with industrial interests
Not sure that integrating an external rail launched weapon on f35 is really much of advantage tbh. Getting meteor on it much more important and useful.

The missed opportunity and customer base with brimstone is apache!

Timmymagic
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

SD67 wrote: 06 Jan 2023, 09:32 Imagine if Brimstone had been integrated with F35 a few years ago, the massive customer base we could sell into. Not that the delay would have anything to do with industrial interests
I think as soon as Spear arrived as a concept it made sense to ditch Brimstone integration. The benefits of the Spear family far outweigh losing Brimstone.

Worth remembering as well, with the exception of AIM-9X and Asraam on the outer pylon, that no missiles have yet to be integrated on the external pylons of F-35, free fall weapons only to date.

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Jdam »

Timmymagic wrote: 06 Jan 2023, 17:09
Worth remembering as well, with the exception of AIM-9X and Asraam on the outer pylon, that no missiles have yet to be integrated on the external pylons of F-35, free fall weapons only to date.
Do we know if there is any plans to change that?

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Jdam wrote: 06 Jan 2023, 18:03
Timmymagic wrote: 06 Jan 2023, 17:09
Worth remembering as well, with the exception of AIM-9X and Asraam on the outer pylon, that no missiles have yet to be integrated on the external pylons of F-35, free fall weapons only to date.
Do we know if there is any plans to change that?
JASSM and LRASM integration will happen around 2027/28 so will require the inner pylon. JSM has been fit tested on external pylons but I'm not sure if its part of the integration effort for flight trials, it fits internal on the A and C (a lot will depend on Japan's desires for external integation I suspect for its F-35). And at present thats it until FCASW arrives c2035. Basically all those images of F-35 Beast Mode with external Amraam are not happening unless someone pays for it...

The Wildcard is the Israelis....but the only weapon I can see them integrating is the Spice series of free fall weapons.

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by leonard »

Fresh news out of France it seems that the TIGER Mk3 program has gone sideways with it's air launch MMP LP missiles and MISTRAL III integration and is now a more of the shelf 2+ upgrade for the TIGER atack helicopter with the procurement of the MBDA BRIMSTONE missile for the helicopter.
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Timmymagic
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

leonard wrote: 06 Mar 2023, 20:43 Fresh news out of France it seems that the TIGER Mk3 program has gone sideways with it's air launch MMP LP missiles and MISTRAL III integration and is now a more of the shelf 2+ upgrade for the TIGER atack helicopter with the procurement of the MBDA BRIMSTONE missile for the helicopter.
From the tweet it appears to be speculation on Brimstone. It would make some sense as it would give it serious range over the current Hellfire installation.

But...

It would in practice be the end of Akeron LP, which is also planned to be used on the Eurodrone....I suspect the French will continue with Akeron LP and its integration to Tiger II+.

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Phil Sayers »

More relevant to the army but not sure where to put it given the Brimstone thread is here - not sure what sort of range these will have given the ground launch but I'm guessing they could wreak havoc if paired with UAVs that have laser designators or else are just fired in a salvo against advancing armoured formations. That said, Ukraine has been ground-launching Brimstones for over a year now without much publicity but this vehicle looks a real step up from just welding launchers to trucks.

Should also be very useful with regards improving any eventual model for the British Army:

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Little J »

Now, can we put them on Apaches, Boxers, etc please...

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by TheLoneRanger »

Little J wrote: 30 Jul 2023, 21:22 Now, can we put them on Apaches, Boxers, etc please...

would loved to have seen what they hit!!
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Little J »

Nice clip of a Tonka firing off a few back in '05...

https://x.com/RealAirPower1/status/1726 ... 02932?s=20

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Jdam »

Hopes for Brimestone on Apache or just sluggish procurement?

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by leonard »

Very recent news.
After Spain it is now the German Luftwaffe that has chosen the MBDA Brimstone missile for their Eurofighters.
https://x.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1749773 ... 54979?s=20
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Jdam »

Is Brimstone an ongoing production line?

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by new guy »

Jdam wrote: 23 Jan 2024, 14:50 Is Brimstone an ongoing production line?
yes

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Jdam wrote: 23 Jan 2024, 14:50 Is Brimstone an ongoing production line?
Yes the 3B only recently finished testing so should replace the 3A in production.

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Maybe the Army might adopt it some time this century. Isn't Ukraine using Brimstone, mounted to Jackal?

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Jdam »

I just thought the army was going with JAGM as Brimestone production lots were done and we would not have the stocks to supply both forces. :crazy:

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

Jdam wrote: 24 Jan 2024, 12:25 I just thought the army was going with JAGM as Brimestone production lots were done and we would not have the stocks to supply both forces. :crazy:
The MoD thought/were told JAGM would be cheaper. It ain't.

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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Absolutely

BTW

I've got a bridge in London to sell you...
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Re: MBDA Brimstone Missile (RAF)

Post by serge750 »

Don't you just love salesmen :lol: :lol: :lol: hope they got their bonuses.... :D
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