Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
wargame_insomniac
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Qoute taken from FSSS thread to keep MROSS discussion separate
Poiuytrewq wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 09:45
SD67 wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 09:04 It looks like H&W for FSS then Amphibs (then QE refit option?)
CL for the second MROSS which should be a clone of RSS SDA, and refit work, and blocks
Scotland for Frigates
Barrow for Subs
Appledore for OPVs and smaller (Border patrol cutters?)
Something like this:

Govan/Scotstoun: T26 followed by T83
Rosyth: T31 followed by T32 plus all CVF refits
H&W Belfast: FSS followed by Amphibs and Wave/Point replacements
H&W Appledore: All Survey, OPV and Patrol vessels
Barrow: All Subs
Cammell Laird: RFA refit work

Also, I am not entirely convinced about another RRS SDA for the MROSS for a couple of
reasons. Rolls Royce sold its commercial marine business to Kongsberg in 2018. Not a deal breaker but perhaps a bit more problematic due to the intended use of the vessel. Also, the RRS SDA was specifically designed for Antarctic research work. The ice breaker facility and large accommodation allocation really isn’t needed for the MROSS. The forward facing hanger is small, can a Wildcat even fit? Looks tight. The design could be adapted but adapting to RN standards could be expensive.

An adapted BMT design built at Appledore seems just as likely IMO. Something derived from Salvas perhaps,
https://www.bmt.org/projects/project/33 ... liary-ship

We have two separate MROSS orders. The first one is going to be a commercial design, being bought off the shelf. It's more likely to be something like the Salvas utility auxiliary ship you listed or platform supply vessel (PSV) or diving support vessel (DSV). Whereas the second one is going to be designed and purpose-built.

I can't find the reference to the relevant article, but I read that the first one will be smaller and would cover North Sea and irish Sea, whilst the second one would be intended more for deep ocean work, presumably for North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans and Greenland / Barents Seas.

I don't think we need a dedicated Icebreaker with one of the higher Polar Classes (PC) ratings. We are not an Arctic Power per se, but we do have an interest in keeping an eye on the seabed with telecoms cables vital to the security and finances of the UK. With HMS Protector and RRS Sir David Attenborough both based mainly in the Antartic, I think it does UK no harm if it has one vessel that it can safely deploy to the Arctic, even in northern winter.

Both HMS Protector and RRS Sir David Attenborough have similar sized crew complement of around 88 and accomodation for 100/90. The latter ship includes 60 scientists for research purposes. It may be for the larger ocean going MROSS role, the ship might need less accomodation and more room for sensors and diving equipment, helicopers and USuV's etc.

So I am not averse for a yard like Cammell Laird to take the lead in building the second MROSS, adapting the RRS Sir David Attenborough design, and then subequently going on to build an adaptation of that design to eventuallty replace HMS Protector in the late 2020; / early 2030's.
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by Repulse »

I think it’s a given that the two MROSS will replace the remaining Echo and HMS Scott. The later has the ability to operate in Ice but is not an ice breaker.

Given however that the Artic is going to be a region of increased interest, perhaps another commercial conversion like HMS Protector would be the best approach for the first MROSS. This would then give the ability to always perform Survey operations in this and the South Atlantic.

The second vessel can the be more specialist like HMS Scott is.
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by RichardIC »

Repulse wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 09:04 I think it’s a given that the two MROSS will replace the remaining Echo and HMS Scott. The later has the ability to operate in Ice but is not an ice breaker.

Given however that the Artic is going to be a region of increased interest, perhaps another commercial conversion like HMS Protector would be the best approach for the first MROSS. This would then give the ability to always perform Survey operations in this and the South Atlantic.

The second vessel can the be more specialist like HMS Scott is.
The trouble with Scott is it's too specialised. The most important requirement for MROSS is going to be surveying the seabed but also being able to operate large UUVs for a sustained period.

Russia's getting increasingly meddlesome in the high north and as as more ice melts the situation is going to get worse. So some ability to operate in ice probably not a bad thing.

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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by Cooper »

RichardIC wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 09:46 Russia's getting increasingly meddlesome in the high north and as as more ice melts the situation is going to get worse.
I really don't think Russia is going to be in any fit state to do much beyond its own borders, once the war in Ukraine is finally done with.

The bulk of their most capable, professional military people, which isn't saying much, has been hollowed out severely over the last 8mths, and its only going to get worse for them.

In terms of conventional threat, Russia is done, for the next decade at least.

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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by shark bait »

Cooper wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 10:10 In terms of conventional threat, Russia is done, for the next decade at least.
Yes it is.

I'm concerned about the unconventional threats, one of which is attacking infrastructure, and that seems a more likely outlet for Russian aggression now.
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by RichardIC »

If Putin survives this he's going to be in full-on hybrid/unconventional mode. And his most credible military assets - the submarine service - have hardly been used in Ukraine.

We're really going to need MROSS.
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by SW1 »

shark bait wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 10:23
Cooper wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 10:10 In terms of conventional threat, Russia is done, for the next decade at least.
Yes it is.

I'm concerned about the unconventional threats, one of which is attacking infrastructure, and that seems a more likely outlet for Russian aggression now.
And backing non state actors like Wagner group to destabilise countries along the North African coast and Eastern Europe. Providing a worse migration crisis on europes borders.
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by Lord Jim »

Maybe look at the design of the new RCN Arctic Patrol Vessels they are currently building and use this as the core to their design?

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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by pko100 »

Sorry if I have missed an earlier post but the first ship has been selected and should in service by March next year. The second ship has not yet been selected but could be a new
build. I'm trying to remember the name of the first one - two words both beginning with S.
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by shark bait »

The Canadian Arctic patrol vessels look good, as do the new Norwegian arctic patrol ships below.
Screenshot_20221120-143356.png
Screenshot_20221120-143406.png
While they do look good, do these bespoke designs offer much of an advantage over the many offshore construction vessels out there ?
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Re: Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ships

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Could these new plans to enhance our shared security include a Kongsberg design for the second MROSS like RRS SDA?


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