Scotland (Political Thread)

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Scottish Independence?

Political Independence (Retain Monarchy)
6
8%
Full Independence (No Monarchy or Commonwealth)
13
16%
Stay In The United Kingdom
59
75%
Emigrate To Ireland
1
1%
 
Total votes: 79

TheLoneRanger
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by TheLoneRanger »

I think, by ignoring a possibile Scottish exit, the UK goverment is making sure it happens. It cannot continue to put its head in the sand and pretend all is ok and nothing is going on.

The UK should make it clear that independence means :

- No common travel area between an independent Scotland and the rUK. (Since there is no Peace to preserve like Island of Ireland or Belfast agreement, then there is no need to offer this). There will be a hard border. More so, as we dont want EU laws to become effective in the UK through the backdoor via a seperation framework with Scotland!!!!!!
- Scotland will have to pay its share of the debt in Sterling.
- Scotland does not inherit any portion of UK institutions? ie similar to the UK leaving the EU and not getting any share.
- Scotland will have to build its own defence - there will be no rUK defence coverage for Scotland - not even in exchange for a finanical yearly contribution.
- All trade will be on WTO terms unless Scotland joins
- Trade will not include a services trade deal for either an independent scotland, or if it is part of the EU.
- A seperation vote must have a minimum of 50% of voters, with a 2/3rd majority to make it legal.
- All UK defence manufacturing institutions will be relocated to the UK.
- An independent Scotland cannot use sterling.
- An independent Scotland will not get access to UK institutions, eg BBC. They will have to create their own from scratch.
- An independent Scotland will not have the Bank of England as a lender of last resort, or have loans backed by the Bank of England.
- There will be no transition period for Scottish Independence. Everything stops on the day of leaving the UK.
- All UK goverment jobs in Scotland will be relocated to the UK - or they will need to be transitioned to
- Since pensions are paid from current taxes(there is no pot for pensions), Scotland will have to pay for its own pensions. Nothing from the UK.

Right now - the Scottish nats can make up any claim and pass it of as legitimate and correct which creates a false. Scots need to understand what independence looks like. That is the only thing that will get past the SNP propagandea.

We all should look how did Canada successfully managed Quebecs independence drive, to see how the UK should manage it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -the-dream

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

TheLoneRanger wrote:Scots need to understand what independence looks like. That is the only thing that will get past the SNP propagandea.
The point I was trying to make - obviously v badly.
TheLoneRanger wrote:pay its share of the debt in Sterling.
No funny monies :)
TheLoneRanger wrote:no rUK defence coverage for Scotland - not even in exchange for a finanical yearly contribution.
How about offering air defence cover in exchange for keeping the SBAs for our boats?
TheLoneRanger wrote: will not get access to UK institutions, eg BBC
... and I thought this was a golden opportunity to send back all the luvvies who replaced 'Queens' English' speakers overnight - boy! what a shock :eh: that was
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The IFS continues with other aspects (they have provided an update to the fiscal projection):

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/fig%201%20scotland.png

The horizontal line (for 3%) which is defined in the EU stability pact would be reached (within a reasonable time frame by spending £15 bn less; I haven't checked how big part of that is currently covered thru the Barnett Formula).

Further, to join, any country would have to have its own currency (£ may have issuing banks in Scotland, but that does not meet the criterion).

Some hard work, then. Plug the fiscal gap while also building up the reserves to be able to manage own currency... before aspiring to join the euro.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

jonas
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by jonas »

Defence IT Services.

I suppose there is a method in the madness. Create more jobs, that in the event of independence will need to be moved south of the border. Therefore, vote for independence and lose your jobs. :thumbdown:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/high ... -in-europe

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I understand your concern, but in the light of several bases closing in Scotland, this sounds/ looks quite good:
"Located close to the defence sites of RAF Lossiemouth and Kinloss Barracks, the skills and experience of ex-service personnel are also being utilised with 20 already recruited, and that number is expected to grow. "
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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dmereifield
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by dmereifield »

jonas wrote:Defence IT Services.

I suppose there is a method in the madness. Create more jobs, that in the event of independence will need to be moved south of the border. Therefore, vote for independence and lose your jobs. :thumbdown:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/high ... -in-europe
If you want to keep the Union together then you must show the benefit of being in the Union. By withdrawing such benefits from Scotland you only increase the chances of succession

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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Make sure Scots resident in all parts of the UK also get to vote in a referendum. :mrgreen:

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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:in the light of several bases closing in Scotland, this sounds/ looks quite good:
"Located close to the defence sites of RAF Lossiemouth and Kinloss Barracks
I didn't have the link (what my reference was with regard to) to hand, but here goes:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/troops- ... n-planned/

Note 'net zero' :) near Kinloss
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »

CNN goes to wrong Scottish city for COP26 conference


CNN idiots went to Edinburgh, not Glasgow for COP26... :roll: :mrgreen:

Scimitar54
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Don’t tell me ……… They empty-chaired everyone ! They did not turn up, so the situation cannot be that serious ! :lolno: :lol:

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SKB
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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »

Supreme Court rejects SNP's IndyRef2 plans

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-63727562
:lol:
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TheLoneRanger

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Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by R686 »

SKB wrote: 23 Nov 2022, 17:51 Supreme Court rejects SNP's IndyRef2 plans

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-63727562
:lol:
What I did find interesting was the bit about not being able to use the international law for becoming independent.

I notice that some pro independent supporters are now saying that they are a colony of England, UK is a prison for the Scottish and not democratic. But have they forgotten that the England just like the other nation/states can’t just up and leave either, England also would have to have a bill to become independent also

But the Supreme Court ruled that they are not a colony or repressed society so that route is not applicable as well


It’s not different to Australia when it became a federation.


The Preamble to the Constitution states that the Australian federation is 'indissoluble' – not able to be broken.

the Australian Constitution states
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - PREAMBLE

WHEREAS the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and under the Constitution hereby established:

And whereas it is expedient to provide for the admission into the Commonwealth of other Australasian Colonies and possessions of the Queen:

Be it therefore enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:--

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