Australian Defence Force

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Mercator
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Re: Australian Defence Force

Post by Mercator »

Probably a fevered dream 'cause the US wants those subs just as bad as us. They can hardly be begging Congress to open a third line and then go ahead and give us two subs. I don't trust the story, I'm afraid.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Mercator wrote: 09 Jun 2022, 09:16 Probably a fevered dream 'cause the US wants those subs just as bad as us. They can hardly be begging Congress to open a third line and then go ahead and give us two subs. I don't trust the story, I'm afraid.

I guess that will come down to how committed the US is to having the hard capability permanently in the area in the future. But like anything it takes political commitment from both sides. Who knows what the ALP will do i would not be surprised they scrap the whole deal

Whilst the US needs those boats in the greater scheme delaying 2 boats over say 4 years I think they could handle that if they deemed it was in their strategic interest

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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R686 wrote: 09 Jun 2022, 10:18
Mercator wrote: 09 Jun 2022, 09:16 Probably a fevered dream 'cause the US wants those subs just as bad as us. They can hardly be begging Congress to open a third line and then go ahead and give us two subs. I don't trust the story, I'm afraid.

I guess that will come down to how committed the US is to having the hard capability permanently in the area in the future. But like anything it takes political commitment from both sides. Who knows what the ALP will do i would not be surprised they scrap the whole deal

Whilst the US needs those boats in the greater scheme delaying 2 boats over say 4 years I think they could handle that if they deemed it was in their strategic interest
It is the problem with defence procurement programmes in a (primarily) two party political system. Always vulnerable to being reversed if the other party gets in. Affects all three services, but Navy seems particularly vulnerable due to the long time periods for procurement.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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The SNN programme is going to be a very expensive and long term commitment that all political parties in Australia need to support if it stand a chance of actually delivery any boats down the line. It almost needs a law agreed by a cross party body to enshrine the programme for the future.
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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SKB wrote: 13 Jun 2022, 08:25

So for about 1% of the project cost is a bargain to get out of that failed deal


But also pretty good when you consider that the UK nearly didn't get the carriers because of contract cost, So we did alright considering

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... r-contract

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Well the Navy idi pretty well but the RAF and Especially the Army suffered as a result. The Australian Government must have negotiated hard as I have a feeling France would have wanted to take them to the cleaners with regards to compensation.

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Lord Jim wrote: 13 Jun 2022, 15:50 Well the Navy idi pretty well but the RAF and Especially the Army suffered as a result. The Australian Government must have negotiated hard as I have a feeling France would have wanted to take them to the cleaners with regards to compensation.
I cant remember where I saw it, but remember the French were at one time looking at a couple of billion in compensation.

Still think we paid them too much but the compensation clause was around 400 million from memory plus cost of work done so far. I think that's is where the French are coming up with additional payments

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-15/ ... s/11112952

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Yes and $3.4 billion has been paid out to the program, the vast bulk of which went to the French. So they were well compensated for something that didn't even complete the design phase.

It was initially thought the about-face on the French deal would cost taxpayers up to $5.5 billion but Mr Albanese says the total has come down to $3.4 billion, taking into account monies already paid.
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/go ... 611-p5aszy
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Very interesting, Seems the US Congress is getting behind the Submarine deal

New AUKUS Caucus Bill Calls for U.S.-Australia Sub Training Pipeline

By: Mallory Shelbourne


A bipartisan group of House lawmakers on Wednesday unveiled legislation that would help the Royal Australian Navy train its future submarine warfare officers with U.S. sailors.

Dubbed the “The Australia-U.S. Submarine Officer Pipeline Act,” the legislation would allow Australia to send at least two of its submarine warfare officers to train with American sailors each year. The Royal Australian Navy officers would first attend the Navy Nuclear Propulsion School, then take the Submarine Officer Basic Course, and finally deploy aboard a U.S. submarine after finishing the basic course, according to text of the bill.

“The new bipartisan bill will establish a joint training pipeline between the U.S. Navy and the Royal Australian Navy, and will enable the start of U.S.-based training of Commanding Officers for Australia’s future fleet of nuclear-powered submarines under the AUKUS alliance,” the AUKUS working group said in a news release.

The bill would mandate that the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of Energy begin the training exchange in 2023 and continue it in the years to follow.

The legislation is the product of Congress’ AUKUS working group, which lawmakers created in April to help advance the new partnership between the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia.

The bill comes as the U.S., the U.K., and Australia continue an 18-month evaluation period to determine what’s necessary for Australia to develop nuclear-powered submarines.

“The AUKUS alliance is the most important national security partnership that America has entered into in decades. Its centerpiece is creating an Australian nuclear-powered undersea fleet of submarines, which all three allies are actively designing. While that work is ongoing, it makes sense to open the U.S. Navy’s nuclear training programs to Australia’s naval officers to acquire proficiency in the operation of nuclear submarines,” Rep. Joe Courtney (D-Conn.), a member of the AUKUS working group who is also the chair of the House Armed Services seapower and project forces subcommittee, said in a statement.

Courtney, Reps. Mike Gallagher (R-Wis.), Blake Moore (R-Utah) and Derek Kilmer (D-Wash.) – all co-chairs of the AUKUS working group – sponsored the bill, as did Reps. Donald Norcross (D-N.J.), Rob Wittman (R-Va.) and Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.).

“The Australia-U.S. Submarine Officer Pipeline Act will help facilitate the delivery and ensure the future success of Australia’s fleet of nuclear-powered submarines under the AUKUS alliance. Because the delivery of such submarines to Australia will require the appropriate training and development of future commanding officers, and in order to uphold the stewardship of the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program, the bill establishes a program for Australian submariner training between the U.S. Navy and the Royal Australian Navy,” the AUKUS working group said in the release.

Last September the Biden administration announced the new trilateral AUKUS alliance, which includes both broader technology sharing and sharing the nuclear propulsion technology required to develop nuclear-powered submarines. The United States has only ever shared nuclear propulsion technology with the U.K. in 1958.

Building nuclear-powered submarined would require billions of dollars and years of investment in infrastructure on Australia’s part, as the country does not have a shipyard that can build or maintain nuclear-powered vessels, USNI News understands.

“It is imperative that we strengthen our undersea capabilities and increase submarine production for our national security interests, and the training exchange program outlined in the legislation will help us achieve that goal,” Moore said in a statement about the bill.


https://news.usni.org/2022/06/15/new-au ... g-pipeline
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/strik ... -a-century
RAAF F-35A fleet hits half a century
I think that puts the RAAF to the largest user outside the US, if only for a short while.

Will be interesting to see if the Albanese Government increases the fleet to a 100

Also 2 additional CH-47F arrive in Townsville

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/min ... wnsville-0

interesting they seeming to take credit for the previous governments commitments to defence

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Have just watched this YouTube vieo. It's a long one so I savd it for a quiet Saturday afternoon.

Interesting discussion on A2/AD, both for China and Australia. I wondr what lessons it could offer fr UK's own defence, given the numerous capability gaps that we currently have for both RAF and RN, and are likely to have to deal with until the early 2030's:

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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F35 playing over Townsville Nth Qld


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Re: Australian Defence Force

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The aviation support team from HMAS Canberra transfer an embarked U.S. Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey into the ship’s hanger during Exercise RIMPAC 2022. Royal Australian Navy Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) HMAS Canberra embarked two MV-22B Osprey Military Aircraft onboard and successfully moved the Osprey off the flight deck, down the elevator lift and into the hangar for the first time at sea during Exercise Rim of the Pacific 2022. The trial with the Osprey’s is part of the Aircraft Maintenance and Flight Trials Unit (AMAFTU) testing Australia’s ability to embark and stow the aircraft with their pilots, ground crew and maintainers to understand what can be achieved and for what duration.
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http://images.defence.gov.au/S20221586
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Mercator wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 04:23

The aviation support team from HMAS Canberra transfer an embarked U.S. Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey into the ship’s hanger during Exercise RIMPAC 2022. Royal Australian Navy Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) HMAS Canberra embarked two MV-22B Osprey Military Aircraft onboard and successfully moved the Osprey off the flight deck, down the elevator lift and into the hangar for the first time at sea during Exercise Rim of the Pacific 2022. The trial with the Osprey’s is part of the Aircraft Maintenance and Flight Trials Unit (AMAFTU) testing Australia’s ability to embark and stow the aircraft with their pilots, ground crew and maintainers to understand what can be achieved and for what duration.
Image
Image
http://images.defence.gov.au/S20221586


Interesting that's its two onboard as i was under the impression that the CBR'S only had one spot for Osprey

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Limited info on this one, but it looks interesting:

Canberra-based company CEA Technologies is building four new Air Defence radars as part of the Australian Government’s $2.7 billion investment in Defence’s new Joint Air Battle Management System. https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/min ... ir-defence
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Also:

The Project Land 555 Phase 6 will modify existing Bushmaster Protected Mobility Vehicles and install Electronic Warfare systems into these vehicles.
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/min ... re-systems

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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R686 wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 05:56
Mercator wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 04:23

The aviation support team from HMAS Canberra transfer an embarked U.S. Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey into the ship’s hanger during Exercise RIMPAC 2022. Royal Australian Navy Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) HMAS Canberra embarked two MV-22B Osprey Military Aircraft onboard and successfully moved the Osprey off the flight deck, down the elevator lift and into the hangar for the first time at sea during Exercise Rim of the Pacific 2022. The trial with the Osprey’s is part of the Aircraft Maintenance and Flight Trials Unit (AMAFTU) testing Australia’s ability to embark and stow the aircraft with their pilots, ground crew and maintainers to understand what can be achieved and for what duration.
Image
Image
http://images.defence.gov.au/S20221586


Interesting that's its two onboard as i was under the impression that the CBR'S only had one spot for Osprey
The Spanish navy have been able to operate 3 USMC MV-22's from the deck of JC-1 for sometime lots of good video and pictures

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Mercator wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 04:23 testing Australia’s ability to embark and stow the aircraft with their pilots, ground crew and maintainers to understand what can be achieved and for what duration.
R686 wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 05:56 under the impression that the CBR'S only had one spot for Osprey
Tempest414 wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 09:33 The Spanish navy have been able to operate 3 USMC MV-22's from the deck of JC-1
Isn't the meaning of a "spot' that you can have x of type y simultaneously with their rotor blades turning etc? So in no way restricts how many can be onboard
- the interesting thing is that the Osprey can travel up and down, between the deck and the hangar
- wonder if the QEs having lifts big enough for two F-35s at a time was dictated by an operational rqrmnt... or the dimensions of an Osprey?
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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Tempest414 wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 09:33
R686 wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 05:56
Mercator wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 04:23

The aviation support team from HMAS Canberra transfer an embarked U.S. Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey into the ship’s hanger during Exercise RIMPAC 2022. Royal Australian Navy Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) HMAS Canberra embarked two MV-22B Osprey Military Aircraft onboard and successfully moved the Osprey off the flight deck, down the elevator lift and into the hangar for the first time at sea during Exercise Rim of the Pacific 2022. The trial with the Osprey’s is part of the Aircraft Maintenance and Flight Trials Unit (AMAFTU) testing Australia’s ability to embark and stow the aircraft with their pilots, ground crew and maintainers to understand what can be achieved and for what duration.
Image
Image
http://images.defence.gov.au/S20221586


Interesting that's its two onboard as i was under the impression that the CBR'S only had one spot for Osprey
The Spanish navy have been able to operate 3 USMC MV-22's from the deck of JC-1 for sometime lots of good video and pictures
I will take your word for it as all video I have seen is a single aircraft landing in the rear most spot, but according to this the 2 aircraft are on board for the duration of the ex

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/ ... or-rimpac/

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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Re: Australian Defence Force

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So as said in the last sentence allowing them to perform landings and take off's from different spots on the flight deck

Also on youtube - LHD Juan Carlos 1 big , bad & lethal from 2016 shows the 4 MV-22 operating from different spots and in the hangar at about 3.24 in the video it shows all 4 on the deck with one landing or taking off from the front of the deck
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