Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
User avatar
whitelancer
Member
Posts: 603
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:19
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 5 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by whitelancer »

Entering service by 2030! Far to slow.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7111
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Has liked: 238 times
Been liked: 281 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Nothing new there, to keep the in year spend inside the goal posts things have to be slowed and extended. We balance the books yearly (Hopefully) but pay more in total. The injection of new money for the next few years could of really helped but the majority of that has been spent filling the black hole. The yearly increase need to be extended until 2030 at the very least.

On a positive note and actually involving the Typhoon, though I knw the platform could "Super Cruise at altitude, watching a video about flying the Typhoon, an ex pilot stated that they could take off from Cyprus at mid day, fully loaded with SRAAM, AMRAAM, Paveway IV and Sniper Pod and Tanks without using reheat at all! The Pilot had flown Jaguars previously so really noted the power difference.

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2546
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 53 times
Been liked: 145 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 17:50 On a positive note and actually involving the Typhoon, though I knw the platform could "Super Cruise at altitude, watching a video about flying the Typhoon, an ex pilot stated that they could take off from Cyprus at mid day, fully loaded with SRAAM, AMRAAM, Paveway IV and Sniper Pod and Tanks without using reheat at all! The Pilot had flown Jaguars previously so really noted the power difference.
Typhoon is the only aircraft apart from F-22 (and perhaps J-20 and SU-57 when they eventually get new engines) that can supercruise with a combat loadout and manoevre effectively in the supersonic realm. Gripen can just reach m1.1 with an air to air loadout but struggles to manoeuvre without losing speed rapidly due to drag, Rafale can allegedly reach m1.2 but with a small loadout (only conformal carry for 2 BVR AAM's) and has issues with the height it can do so and manoeuverability. No legacy aircraft like SU-27 or F-15 can manage it.

Meanwhile.... Typhoon and F-22 can happily supercruise with max A2A loadouts at m1.6 and above at altitudes the others can't approach....it's a colossal advantage but never gets remarked on, far more useful tactically than how quickly you can turn down low and slow...
These users liked the author Timmymagic for the post:
Jensy

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2546
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 53 times
Been liked: 145 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Looks like the Italian sale of 24 x Typhoon to Egypt is coming close to completion...good news for Leonardo and BAE, probably MBDA as well...

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/egyp ... v40mfjf45k

This means that the order, and near certain order, books for Typhoon are fairly healthy...

28 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Germany under Project Quadriga
24 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Egypt
15 x Typhoon ECR to Germany
Up to 50 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Germany to replace non-nuclear Tornado
20 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Spain under Project Halcon, to replace oldest EF-18
Total - 87 to 137 Typhoon, including new ECR variant

Orders still being built...
28 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Kuwait
24 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Qatar
Total - 52 Typhoon

Potential Orders...in order of probability..
30 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Spain - a possibility, to replace remaining EF-18 fleet.
48 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Saudi Arabia - still in the works allegedly, but very quiet..
? x Typhoon Tranche 1 (second hand) to Serbia - a possibility, probably no more than 12-16
? x Typhoon Tranche 1 (second hand) to Indonesia - a possibility, probably no more than 12-16
Total - 78 Typhoon and re-sale of max. 32 Tranche 1 Typhoon

Now if only the RAF would tag an order on for 24 x Typhoon ECR to keep Warton happly ticking over until Tempest...
All in all its not bad going, should keep the companies going until at least 2030, if not on full assembly but component production.
These users liked the author Timmymagic for the post (total 2):
wargame_insomniacJensy

User avatar
Cooper
Member
Posts: 314
Joined: 01 May 2015, 08:11
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 20 times
Korea North

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Cooper »

Timmymagic wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 14:26 Meanwhile.... Typhoon and F-22 can happily supercruise with max A2A loadouts at m1.6 and above at altitudes the others can't approach....it's a colossal advantage but never gets remarked on, far more useful tactically than how quickly you can turn down low and slow...
..And yet no one seems to put much importance on the ability when it comes to countries evaluating the Typhoon for purchase. Can't say any country that contemplated buying the Typhoon has ever said Supercruise ability was a facto when choosing, and it certainly hasn't stopped countries going with Rafales over Typhoons in the past.

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2546
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 53 times
Been liked: 145 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Cooper wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 16:21 ..And yet no one seems to put much importance on the ability when it comes to countries evaluating the Typhoon for purchase. Can't say any country that contemplated buying the Typhoon has ever said Supercruise ability was a facto when choosing, and it certainly hasn't stopped countries going with Rafales over Typhoons in the past.
I suspect they don't know what they're missing...
Its similar to how some people still say that Rafale is a superior multirole fighter...how do they work that out? Its got a far smaller selection of weaponry available for both A2A and A2G, its targeting pod selection is inferior, ability to self escort is lower....and Typhoon has undertaken way more actual combat missions that Rafale ever has..

SD67
Member
Posts: 441
Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 09:49
Has liked: 40 times
Been liked: 37 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Timmymagic wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 14:40 Looks like the Italian sale of 24 x Typhoon to Egypt is coming close to completion...good news for Leonardo and BAE, probably MBDA as well...

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/egyp ... v40mfjf45k

This means that the order, and near certain order, books for Typhoon are fairly healthy...

28 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Germany under Project Quadriga
24 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Egypt
15 x Typhoon ECR to Germany
Up to 50 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Germany to replace non-nuclear Tornado
20 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Spain under Project Halcon, to replace oldest EF-18
Total - 87 to 137 Typhoon, including new ECR variant

Orders still being built...
28 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Kuwait
24 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Qatar
Total - 52 Typhoon

Potential Orders...in order of probability..
30 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Spain - a possibility, to replace remaining EF-18 fleet.
48 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Saudi Arabia - still in the works allegedly, but very quiet..
? x Typhoon Tranche 1 (second hand) to Serbia - a possibility, probably no more than 12-16
? x Typhoon Tranche 1 (second hand) to Indonesia - a possibility, probably no more than 12-16
Total - 78 Typhoon and re-sale of max. 32 Tranche 1 Typhoon

Now if only the RAF would tag an order on for 24 x Typhoon ECR to keep Warton happly ticking over until Tempest...
All in all its not bad going, should keep the companies going until at least 2030, if not on full assembly but component production.
I'm kind of wondering what smaller western-oriented nations are going to buy in the early 2030s.
The scenario - Country X is not cleared for F35, cannot afford a 6th gen fighter but has a couple of dozen fighters that are wearing out. F18 is long out of production and Typhoon prod ending. Is F16 really going to still be around? Rafale for everyone if they don't want to buy Russian?
Maybe a Tempest-ised Gripen v2.0 with no ITAR restrictions would find a ready market
-

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7111
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Has liked: 238 times
Been liked: 281 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Upgraded F-16Vs would still be around and the production line for the Block 70 or further advanced models could still be running, who knows. Then there are the combat versions of the latest supersonic trainers either entering service or that soon will be, basically being the 21st Century F-5s. A further upgraded Gripen would be an option depending on how and when Sweden carries out a similar programme.

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2546
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 53 times
Been liked: 145 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

I'm not going to update the list....but a Turkish delegation has been in the UK talking to us about Typhoon....

It sounds like a courtesy visit with a side aim of pressurising the US from dragging their feet on F-16V sales and an upgrade package for other aircraft, or it could possibly represent a genuine interest given recent events, and possibly a more realistic idea on when TFX will be available, to purchase a top end air superiority fighter to complement their large F-16 fleet. I think its the former rather than the latter...but its worth noting.

The below is from the MiddleEastEye Editor, reasonably reliable but definitely from a more Turkish government aligned view.



Article Text
The Turkish government may be interested in buying Eurofighter Typhoon warplanes if its F-16 purchase request from the United States doesn’t progress, sources familiar with the issue told Middle East Eye.

Turkish Air Force Commander General Hasan Kucukakyuz last month visited the United Kingdom, the main producer in the Eurofighter consortium, and met Royal Air Force Commander Marshal Sir Mike Wingston.

Kucukakyuz also inspected the UK Quick Reaction Alert that flies with Typhoon aircraft.

'[Eurofighter Typhoons] could be a stop-gap option until we get the fifth generation and locally produced TF-X in our hands'

- Turkish government source

“The Typhoons are very good, in excellent quality,” one source familiar with the internal considerations of the Turkish government told MEE.

“They could be a stop-gap option until we get the fifth generation and locally produced TF-X in our hands, of course, if we cannot get the F-16s.”

In September, Turkey sent a letter of request on 40 F-16s and 80 modernisation kits to the US government after getting kicked out of the F-35 programme more than two years ago due to its purchase of the S-400 Russian missile defence system.

Turkish officials say the US government encouraged them to make the request after contacting a junior Turkish diplomat in Washington to pass the information.

“They even knew how many jets we are in need of and said ‘why don’t you make a request and see what happens?’" a senior Turkish official told MEE.

Ankara has been slow to submit the necessary paperwork but the people in Washington who closely follow the issue told MEE that US President Joe Biden would back the request so it is very likely that the deal will get through the US Congress, despite its generally unsympathetic stance on Turkey.

F-16 sale to Turkey would serve Nato interests, says US official

People familiar with the issue said the F-16 request may get through Congress after the June 2023 Turkish presidential elections, since the Biden administration wouldn’t like to appear as if it is doing favours for Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's administration.

However Turkey’s recent threats of a military operation against Kurdish groups in northern Syria as well as Erdogan's veto on Sweden and Finland’s Nato membership might complicate the whole process and Turkey might not get the F-16s for a long time.

“The UK has been trying to sell the Typhoon aircraft to Turkey for a long time,” Ozgur Eksi, editor-in-chief of the defence website TurDef.com, said.

“Italy, as part of the consortium, also tried its best a decade ago but couldn’t convince the Turks at the time who were focused on getting the American hardware.”

'Proven track record'

An opinion article that appeared on Turkish government-aligned Daily Sabah over the weekend said that the Eurofighter, which is produced by a consortium of the UK, Germany, Spain and Italy, “has a proven track record and is the backbone of the Allied air defence.”

The article claimed that F-16 approval is a coin toss and the Eurofighter is the best option for the Turkish military going forward.

“Since its maiden flight in 1994, the Typhoon has been modernised and upgraded to be the most advanced swing-role fighter jet on the market,” the article said.

“Its airframe has been designed to reduce radar cross-section and upgrades are enhancing the stealthy features of the aircraft. Sensor fusion, high situational awareness, cutting-edge avionics and electronics, super-cruise capability, and sovereignty over mission data, would provide the Turkish Air Force with a competitive advantage.”

Asked about a possible deal to sell Eurofighter Typhoon warplanes to Turkey, a UK Ministry of Defence spokesperson said: “Turkey is a Nato ally and an important friend to the UK. The UK regularly has conversations with Turkey about capability cooperation, just as we have similar conversations with other allies.”

A possible deal would need to get approval from Germany, Spain and Italy as well. Turkish-German ties are often fraught and Berlin has a traditionally cautious approach to Turkish weapons requests as it is still blocking the exports of some key materials for the Turkish arms industry.

The UK last month completely lifted all of restrictions on the export of defence products to Turkey that were brought in following Ankara's 2019 offensive on northeast Syria.

The source familiar with the Turkish government’s thinking said that the Turkish military could easily adapt itself to Eurofighter platforms but it would still require some legwork. “It isn’t going to be very easy, but compared to a non-Nato system, it will be smooth.”

Eksi, the defence expert, says that Turkey must get its hands on the Eurofighter’s updated and modernised versions such as Tranche 3A or 4. “Otherwise the Turkish military would need to do additional maintenance work on the plane’s bodies and also modernise their avionics,” he added.

Turkey and the UK have close defence relations through their Nato partnership, and there is industrial cooperation as well. UK engine maker Rolls-Royce and its local partner Kale are expected to supply an engine for Ankara's first indigenous fighter jet, the TF-X.

leonard
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 21 May 2016, 17:52
Has liked: 36 times
Been liked: 39 times
Italy

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by leonard »

This is the German ESG-Gruppe take on the Eurofighter Typhoon for the electronic atack role for the future Luftwaffe buy in this year ILA 2022 airshow.
Any opinion on this configuration of the Eurofighter is welcome ????

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2546
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 53 times
Been liked: 145 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

leonard wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 16:06 Any opinion on this configuration of the Eurofighter is welcome ????
It's an odd one. It's a single seater for a start. Airbus were wanting to do the ECR as a 2-seater in previous images. It also has the EW pods and tanks in the wrong position. The ECR proposal switched them around to give the EW pods better coverage. This required a modification to the wing to plumb the inner pylons.

It's one of many EW proposals seen at the show..

Leonardo...


Hensoldt


Rafael
These users liked the author Timmymagic for the post:
leonard

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 2546
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Has liked: 53 times
Been liked: 145 times
United Kingdom

Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Project Halcon, the supply of 20 new Typhoon to Spain to replace the oldest EF-18 is signed.


Post Reply