Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ~UNiOnJaCk~ »

Dahedd wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 16:53 Mate of mine working on them at Lossie still insists they're ideally looking for at least 3 more.

🤷‍♂️
More are definitely needed to my mind - somewhere between 3 and 6 would seem about right.

Obviously i'm not saying we couldn't always do with even more than that, but I imagine between 3-6 is probably the limit of realism, if there's any chance at all.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Well the existing number closes the capability gap left by the retirement of the Nimrod MR2 and the Cancellation of the MRA4. There is still a capacity gap though is one looks at what the Nimrod fleet was before it left service, that was needed to meet all its commitments.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Clive F »

Thought I read many moons ago that min number of Nimrods required was 12 but only 9 frames could be modified so that is how we ended with 9. I may be wrong.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ~UNiOnJaCk~ »

I’m personally not sure the requirement for 21 MPA ever went away as such. It was what we decided we were prepared to afford that changed things.

Now you can also argue that there is a large Sentinel shaped hole in our overall ISTAR picture too (again a requirement that seems not to have gone away - one cut simply because we aren’t prepared to afford it) and that if this is ever to be filled, a prime candidate for doing so is by using the P-8 fleet (maybe coupled with AAS or equivalent?).

Long story short, I think you can make the argument for a minimum of at least 21 aircraft if we are being honest about our actual capability requirements.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

I think your far far more likely to see more protector aircraft than more p8
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by KiwiMuzz »

SW1 wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 14:18 I think your far far more likely to see more protector aircraft than more p8
Here's a crazy idea - RAF gets nine of the Mariner version, so each P8 can go out with a "Loyal Wingman"...?
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

You would probably have the uav doing monitoring and surveillance orbits and only call a p8 out as and when req.

Need to invest in leonardo seaspray and sage pods as well as ultras sonobouy pods though.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by jimthelad »

I think UAS for sonobuoy pickets is a good idea, with the aim to drop fences of the low cost long life Ultra passive DIFAR buoys. They could police these for hours and if needed drop a multistatic triad on a suspect contact. The problem is that dropping weapons may be a step too far or the performance loss on the Protector in lugging a couple of Stingray around may preclude this. The other issue is that in a hot war where ASW is an issue, the opposition is going to hammer the uplink stations and the geostationary comms satellites needed to operate UAS in the ASW context. That is where the the lone wolf MPA comes into it's own, dropping sonobuoy lines and then prosecuting the attack autonomously of any external support.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Jensy »

SW1 wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 14:18 I think your far far more likely to see more protector aircraft than more p8
We rarely see an uplift in numbers for any platform. In its final years the MR.2 fleet was in a sorry state (much less the near decade long gap). We should probably be grateful for nine.

Protector is also a fairly 'exquisite capability' in capability and cost. Finding a cheaper way to deliver persistent surveillance might be a priority if we want more MPA mass.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

Jensy wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 00:53
SW1 wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 14:18 I think your far far more likely to see more protector aircraft than more p8
We rarely see an uplift in numbers for any platform. In its final years the MR.2 fleet was in a sorry state (much less the near decade long gap). We should probably be grateful for nine.

Protector is also a fairly 'exquisite capability' in capability and cost. Finding a cheaper way to deliver persistent surveillance might be a priority if we want more MPA mass.
I think there is a couple of fundamental differences with the end of the Cold War to now. The Russian threat is different in that there ssbns don’t need to break out into the North Atlantic anymore because there missile tech has moved on, so they sit under the ice and use the sea space in there own back yard under there air defence umbrella to operate, I doubt we will be sending ships or aircraft up there to find them. China doesn’t have the same options in the pacific as it’s not near sea ice.

There attack subs are now predominantly ssk, because theyve been easier & cheaper to build and maintain than there old ssn’s or any new ones, so that may change were and how we look for them.

We have selected an aircraft because it’s based on civil airliner to aid availablity (ignoring the fact most operators in Europe other than Ryan air are switching to Airbus). Any airline buying a new fleet of 9 such aircraft would looking at having 7 up 16hrs a day everyday but would have a crewing and support structure in place for such, the RAF won’t have. I know there not directly comparable but the point being they should have more aircraft available from a smaller total fleet..
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Defiance »

RAF P-8s have been hunting SSKs as part of EXERCISE ARCTIC DOLPHIN. NATO reports say that 4 submarines were involved and a foreign navy version of Perisher was exercised. I would guess it was the Norwegians as the host nation but it isn't actually specified in the articles.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/ra ... -partners/
https://mc.nato.int/media-centre/news/2 ... lphin-2022

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by GarethDavies1 »

Do our P8s actually have any weapons at present?

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

GarethDavies1 wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 12:46 Do our P8s actually have any weapons at present?
Never mind the weapons are they allowed to use U.K. sonobuoys yet…..

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SW1 wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 16:19 They don’t have the people or budget to operate what they have bought never mind more.
Operational Analysis says 14 ... would be the RIGHT number
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Clive F wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 08:24 Thought I read many moons ago that min number of Nimrods required was 12 but only 9 frames could be modified so that is how we ended with 9. I may be wrong.
You are not wrong... then they looked at the wings and 'how many' could be bashed into any kind of 'std config' and the number of '9' arose from the ashes. Except that... the rest is history
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

As for any airline stats for commonality/ availability, the fact that we , the USAF and the Norvegians not only fly the same a/c but maintain it for quick turnaround(s) in the bases including Iceland is something that was going amiss, for a bit,
... but also the 1st Fleet has been resumed. So the N. Atlantic is back in the big picture. Not just like the "Baltics'" under a microscope
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SKB »

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Driving past Lossie yesterday I counted four big grey tails on the runway - spike in activity at the moment or just business as usual?
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Dahedd »

According to The Brit on twitter there's been something going on.



There definitely seems to have been more activity with them returning over my house at all hours of the night (it's great living under the Lossie flightpath) According to the chap on twitter though there's been a constant RAF rotation, a Canadian Aurora & 2 USN P8 operating out of Iceland.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Ianmb17 »

In UK


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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Jdam »



Can we strap it to the Sting Ray Torpedo.

An option for the future.

I missed the AAS coming to the UK as well from above :o
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Jdam wrote: 22 Nov 2022, 19:24 Can we strap it to the Sting Ray Torpedo.

An option for the future.
HAAWC is based around the LongShot wing kit that they purchased the design for from Leigh Aerosystems in the US. If BAE had to adapt StingRay they might be inclined to go to MBDA for their DiamondBack wing kit or alternately buy the design for the follow on Leigh Aerosystems SWAK wing kit. They could probably pick the design up for peanuts and make a UK sovereign capability whilst also opening up some potential for other munitions, because stand off is not going away.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Come to think of it, how much would it cost to attach some kind of CAMM derived booster to Stingray and make a modern mk41 compatible ASROC replacement?

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

SD67 wrote: 23 Nov 2022, 17:07 Come to think of it, how much would it cost to attach some kind of CAMM derived booster to Stingray and make a modern mk41 compatible ASROC replacement?
You'd need a bigger booster...

But we could just buy the MBDA MILAS and fit Stingray to that...more than twice the range of ASROC and canister launched so no need for Mk.41...MBDA made as well...VL-ASROC is very underwhelming in comparison...
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