MBDA (UK)

Contains threads on equipment developed by the UK defence and aerospace industry, but not in service with the British Armed Forces.
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Timmymagic
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

A really good article in Desider's February edition detailing the 2021 Storm Shadow MLU (SPEAR CAP 4) test shots at White Sands in the US. Trials included GPS denial via jamming and were reportedly the most complex that White Sands has done in a long time. 4 missiles fired, all successful.

https://des.mod.uk/storm-shadow-spear-c ... ons-trial/

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Defiance »

Good stuff there. Storm Shadow is among the more useful things we can bring in a peer conflict so it's good to see it's getting the development money it needs rather than being left behind

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Defiance wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 08:23 Good stuff there. Storm Shadow is among the more useful things we can bring in a peer conflict so it's good to see it's getting the development money it needs rather than being left behind
I do wonder if we ever carried out the plan to reduce the holdings to 400 from 900, and if we did what the status was of the 'dropped' missiles. Hopefully MoD saw sense and will now reconsider and MLU the lot.....its not as if we're short of storage bunkers. The French were going to drop to 100...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Some good news...FCASW looks unblocked..

Both the missile mock ups behind have been seen before many times at trade shows and in graphics/presentations...

Have they done the sensible thing finally and agreed to develop both?

Google Translate
The General Delegate for Armaments Joël Barre, the Director 🇬🇧 @DefenceES & the CEO @byMBDA , launched the preparation work for the future anti-ship missile and future cruise missile (FMAN-FMC) after signing a state agreement and notification of contracts #NotreDéfense


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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Lord Jim »

I worry that is the RAF ends up being the only customer initially for the stealthy but slow weapon with the French and Royal Navy going for the fast weapon, it will be very expensive and we will only purchase a very limited number, say the same number as that of the TLAM used by the Royal Navy's SSNs. The Navy will benefit from being closer to the French design as they may get access to a submarine launch version, which the French Navy desire. Making either compatible with the MK41 VLS is also important as the Bigger Stealth and slow missile maybe a tight fit.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Lord Jim wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 07:12 I worry that is the RAF ends up being the only customer initially for the stealthy but slow weapon with the French and Royal Navy going for the fast weapon, it will be very expensive and we will only purchase a very limited number, say the same number as that of the TLAM used by the Royal Navy's SSNs. The Navy will benefit from being closer to the French design as they may get access to a submarine launch version, which the French Navy desire. Making either compatible with the MK41 VLS is also important as the Bigger Stealth and slow missile maybe a tight fit.
I suspect the French Air Force and Marine Nationale air wing will be happy with the subsonic, stealthy version as well. Pilots tend to like weapons that keep that out of range of enemy defences. Same with Sub Captains. If both versions are built, which is the ideal position, I think the Supersonic version will get a far smaller order from the navy's as an AShM and from the air forces as a rather specialised weapon once reality sets in. I think the subsonic, stealthy missile will also be a better AShM too...

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Lord Jim »

FCASW was always going to be an expensive Weapon System, but having two missiles will only make it more so.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

From this it seems like they still haven't made a final decision on which concept will go forward.






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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Defiance »

Sounds like FC/ASW is about to become FC & ASW.

If the requirements are that reconcilable then it's the only way to move forward. The UK take the lead on the cruise weapon and the French take the lead on the anti-ship weapon

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Lord Jim »

And how many years has the FCASW programme been running and they are still in the assessment phase!

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Defiance wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 15:28 Sounds like FC/ASW is about to become FC & ASW.

If the requirements are that reconcilable then it's the only way to move forward. The UK take the lead on the cruise weapon and the French take the lead on the anti-ship weapon
George seems to think so..but I'm not so sure. It's still only assessment of concepts, not agreement to proceed with both, so I think its a little premature to say there will be 2 missiles. Personally I think we need both...incidentally the supersonic, medium range missile is not only anti-ship, its also land attack....and long range air to air against targets such as AWACS and AAR..(think 500 mile range Meteor), the subsonic, stealthy version could also be an anti ship missile like LRASM. Both should be capable of air launch, canister launch (either ship or ground platform based), VL system launch (Sylver and UK will want Mk41 for the RN and export sales) plus sub surface launch...





Press Release
The United Kingdom and France have confirmed the launch of the preparation works for the Future Cruise / Anti-Ship Weapon (FC/ASW) programme, after the signature today of a government agreement and associated contracts by the French Direction générale de l’armement (DGA) and the British Defence Equipment & Support (DE&S).

Eric Beranger, CEO of MBDA said: “The FC/ASW programme is an example of the value of the ‘One MBDA’ integrated model. By combining technology, industrial capacity and funding across borders, we can deliver unique and advanced sovereign capabilities. Following the conclusion of the FC/ASW Concept Phase, the confirmation of the launch of these preparation works testifies the renewed confidence of our two countries towards MBDA. The project will take advantage from our sustained French/UK Centres of Excellence. This reinforcement of MBDA’s portfolio of deep strike and anti-ship systems will allow MBDA to offer to our armed forces, whose satisfaction is our priority, a cutting-edge solution fitted to their requirements and adapted to all existing or future operational needs.”

These preparation works will focus on the co-ordinated development of a programme of next generation deep strike and heavy anti-ship weapons. It will assess two complementary missile concepts, expected to be fielded at the end of the decade: a subsonic low observable concept and a supersonic, highly manoeuvrable concept. These concepts are to meet the requirements of France and the UK and will provide a game changing capability to overcome land-based and maritime threats, hardened targets and air defence systems, at very long ranges and in increasingly contested battlespace environments.

FC/ASW will complement MBDA’s portfolio of existing products that continue to be evolved to adapt to new threats.
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Defiance »

Timmymagic wrote: 21 Feb 2022, 14:14
Geoerge seems to think so..but I'm not sure. It's still only assessment of concepts, not agreement to proceed with both, so I think its a little premature to say there will be 2 missiles. Personally I think we need both...
My overall feeling is that trying to design a missile that can satisfactorily cover both those concepts (if that's technically possible*) will cost mega-£ and both parties will be a frustrated by paying a premium for capabilities they don't actually want.

Two missiles might actually be cheaper than trying to make one super-missile that can do everything.

*this is an important point. All the aspects that'll make a cruise missile go fast and be agile will penalise the slow and stealthy approach and vice versa. I'm not sure it ever was possible to combine these demands into one missile which is why it's taking as long as it is.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Time for another update...pretty safe to add the Polish Navy to the list I think now...

It really is shaping up to be a bit of a hit....suspect there will be more orders to come in due course from around Europe.

Now... if only we committed to the ground launched Brimstone/CAMM mash-up...would be a guaranteed sale for most of the Navies who are purchasing CAMM/CAMM-ER for anti-FIAC work, ground support and littorals plus it would be a big hit on the ground market....it would fulfil the BGOAA requirement for the UK immediately and I think you could guarantee a Polish buy...

CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date: CAMM in Blue, CAMM-ER in Red, Both in Green)

British Army (Cmdr 7 AD recently confirmed CAMM-ER is planned)
Royal Navy
Royal New Zealand Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy

Italian Navy
Italian Air Force
Italian Army

Royal Canadian Navy
Pakistan Navy
Polish Army
Polish Navy


Think its likely that both the Royal Navy and the Poland Army and Navy will go Green in due course. It would make sense with the programmes they have underway. Still the potential of the Brazilian Marines as well.

ASRAAM customers to date: (Legacy Asraam in Blue, Asraam Block 6 in Red)

Royal Air Force (Block 6 will completely replace legacy Asraam from 2022 onwards)
Royal Australian Air Force (Questions remain about Asraam's future in RAAF service)
Indian Air Force (Unclear if Block 6 is part of the deal)
Qatar Emiri Air Force (Likely Asraam Block 6 only when delivered).
Royal Air Force of Oman (Likely Asraam Block 6 only when delivered).

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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Lord Jim »

If the RAAF's F-18E/F/G as well as its F-35As are already flying with the AIM-9X then ASRAAM will probably leave service when the legacy Hornets retire fully. It is interesting though to see F035s of whatever flavour carrying their Shorter range IR weapons on the outer wing pylons rather then internally. Is the 9X cleared for internal carriage?

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Lord Jim wrote: 04 Mar 2022, 22:18 If the RAAF's F-18E/F/G as well as its F-35As are already flying with the AIM-9X then ASRAAM will probably leave service when the legacy Hornets retire fully. It is interesting though to see F035s of whatever flavour carrying their Shorter range IR weapons on the outer wing pylons rather then internally. Is the 9X cleared for internal carriage?
It might do. But the Australian ASRAAM also have a fair bit left on their shelf life, as its cleared on F-35 they may retain in the stockpile for an emergency. They still have 9L's and 9M's in stockpile. They also haven't made enough purchases of 9X to replace ASRAAM in service. 9X is not cleared for internal carriage.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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(Forces News) 2nd February 2022
The new Sky Sabre system brings together data from the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force, as well as being able and can hit a tennis ball-sized object travelling at the speed of sound. The British Army's 16 Regiment Royal Artillery has welcomed Sky Sabre, which is a replacement of the Rapier missile system.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Financial and logistics saving using the same missile across multiple services, who’d of thunk it. Any other missiles we could do that with ….
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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Posted this previously....I suspect we all think this is rather a good idea now...

MBDA Spectre...Quadcopter that can carry resupply, Electronic Warfare and be armed with MBDA Enforcer....


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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Asraam Block VI (also known as CSP) has gone operational. I think it can definitely be called the most advanced WVR missile on earth (not that legacy Asraam wasn't at the top either mind...).

This has a new UK-made advanced seeker, some improvements from CAMM, removal of obsolete components (see the recent news around US Stinger production to realise how important that is) and is completely ITAR free. It will progressively replace all the UK's Asraam stckpile with new build missiles.

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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Finally looks like we've woken up...good news, personally I hope we get some smaller companies involved as well to put pressure on the big ones...

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/mbda-moves-i ... ons-domain

MBDA moves into the Loitering Munitions domain

A few years ago, asked about a possible involvement of the European missile company in the Loitering Munitions (LM) domain, the company management stated that at that stage MBDA was not considering such a move.

Recent regional conflicts highlighted the importance of such weapons, which led to a common European programme under the auspices of PESCO (Permanent Structured Cooperation), known as “Small Scalable Weapons”, SSW in short. The SSW is part of the 4th wave of PESCO projects, announced on 16 November 2021. According to the PESCO document, “The objective of this project is to provide the MoDs with a new, small, low-cost weapon, featuring the capability to provide scalable-effects and the ability to loiter/re-loiter. Equipping conventional and rotary, manned and unmanned aerial vehicles, this weapon could target moving, soft or lightly armoured vehicles in real-time, with a negligible collateral damage and with some automatic features aiding the ever-present man-in-the-loop.” Italy is the coordinator for the SSW programme, the other participating country being France, MBDA being clearly one of the industrial partners involved in the project.

However the involvement of the company goes beyond the work done at European level. Talking to the media during the yearly MBDA Italy press conference, Lorenzo Mariani, Executive Group Director Sales and Business Development, and Managing Director of MBDA Italy, confirmed that the LM theme is followed at group level; “MBDA Italy is working at concept development stage,” he stated, underlining that MBDA can leverage part of the work done in the past when it worked on the Small Scalable Kinetic Weapon, a US AFRL (US Air Force Research Laboratory) in the a low-cost autonomous weapon with a weight under 10 kg capable to immobilise unarmoured targets in urban environments. MBDA UK also led Team LM that aimed at answering a UK MoD requirement with its Fire Shadow, the programme being then cancelled in the UK 2017-18 Defence Budget. However times have changed.

“Loitering Munitions are complex systems, however here in Italy we can and we must concentrate on tactical systems, with a range of some tens of kilometres, and a loitering time up to 30 minutes,” the MBDA Italy Managing Director said. No figures were given on the warhead capability, however EDR On-Line understood these will remain in the order of magnitude of antitank warheads, at least one of the typical MBDA subcontractors in that domain being working on such solutions.

Talking to the head of the Group Software Division about the applications of the Artificial Intelligence (AI), EDR On-Line was told that this is not yet used in the missile kill chain, as no procedures have yet been developed to verify its role during the verification process. However AI is being considered in the development of image processing algorithms, which might lead to a different kind of terminal guidance system, which would fit particularly Loitering Munitions.

Although not yet a reality, no roadmap was provided, the mood about LMs has definitely changed at MBDA.


MBDA do of course have previous experience with Loitering Munitions

MBDA FireShadow
Image

MBDA TiGER (Tactical Extended Range Grenade)
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MBDA Small Scalable Kinetic Weapon
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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Thought I'd post this here, a couple of years old but shows the MMP in operation. There is also a fire and forget mode.



5000m range is twice as far as the UK's current Javelin set up.


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Re: MBDA (UK)

Post by Timmymagic »

Poland has selected Brimstone as the armament for their Tank Destroyer vehicles...

Think the UK may end up as the third ground user of Brimstone in due course (although there is a very real chance that other countries will get there ahead of the BGOAA requirement...wonder if the AH-64E integration might come in to play again...because Poland is looking to buy AH-64E...Qatar and Saudi also use AH-64E and are Brimstone users...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -vehicles/
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Re: MBDA (UK)

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Timmymagic wrote: 17 May 2022, 09:28 If the AH-64E integration might come in to play again...because Poland is looking to buy AH-64E...Qatar and Saudi also use AH-64E and are Brimstone users...
If we had gotten off our asses and got it done already Brimstone might be an even better seller. :|
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