Indian Armed Forces

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
Defiance
Donator
Posts: 819
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52
Has liked: 14 times
Been liked: 24 times
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: An ex-Navy chief said on an Indian daily that they won't be buying any more of those as every arrested landing needs some remedial work afterwards... easy to make a navy plane into something else but v.v does not hold

This does not mean that the plane in itself was bad (Russia buying quite a few for their AF cause they, too, have been losing numbers by going for the top-top designs).
Yeah the IN aren't happy with MiG-29K, the main reason Russia went for MiG-29K over Su-33 was (so i hear) to do with carrier capacity and cost. At least it gave them a moderate starting point for deriving requirements for MRCBF but there's so many damn acronyms in Indian programs it can be a bit of a mess.

The wider Russian enterprise is moving away from the MiG design which is highlighted by the lacklustre support for MiG-35. Seems like they mainly were backing it to maintain a 'low cost' export offering, the RuAF is becoming a Flanker force with all the associated pros and cons.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Defiance wrote: the main reason Russia went for MiG-29K over Su-33 was (so i hear) to do with carrier capacity
If you meant to say 'Russia' the main reason was that the Su was too big for their carrier... meaning that it could in practice carry only A2A and thus was no 'strike force'... as evidenced by their cruise to Syria and back

I agree with the thoughts on Mig-35 (though it is also a good instrument for maintaining fighter pilots' annual hours) and think I got the 29s and 35s a bit mixed up in this respect
- very few operational units with 29 left?
- for the 35 there was an announcement with the UAE that they would start to assemble those planes; will believe it when I see it

Going back to India
Defiance wrote:so many damn acronyms in Indian programs
as their domestic fighter numbers have now been capped (they up-powered it, to allow carrier ops), is there any "Made in India" fighter in sight... e.g. Rafale does not count?
- their engine production has gone better (though there is no R&D) than plane designs

Finally, EMALS was approved in the Trump years. If anything, the ties have grown closer since, so I guess that tech transfer would still be allowed?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Defiance
Donator
Posts: 819
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52
Has liked: 14 times
Been liked: 24 times
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Going back to India
Defiance wrote:so many damn acronyms in Indian programs
as their domestic fighter numbers have now been capped (they up-powered it, to allow carrier ops), is there any "Made in India" fighter in sight... e.g. Rafale does not count?
- their engine production has gone better (though there is no R&D) than plane designs

Finally, EMALS was approved in the Trump years. If anything, the ties have grown closer since, so I guess that tech transfer would still be allowed?
So as I understand it (and I could well be wrong), the main development efforts are ...
  • MWF - Pretty much Tejas Mk2. take the Mk1 and just make it work - bigger engine, bigger airframe and canards
  • AMCA - indigenous 5th gen effort in joint effort between DRDO/HAL
  • MRCBF - indigenous carrierbourne effort satisfied by joint-effort between DRDO/HAL as TEDBF*
*variant of TEDBF renamed ORCA being examined for air force usage but I don't think it has been named as satisfying a particular requirement or to meet a defined program like other aircraft concepts have been. It's a proposed spinoff from TEDBF and is being evaluated and could potentially compete with AMCA in the multirole/strike arena in terms of development funding.

MWF = Medium Weight Fighter
AMCA = Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft
MRCBF = Multi Role Carrier Bourne Fighter
TEDBF = Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter
ORCA = Omni Role Combat Aircraft

Plus there's loads of OTS procurements. The whole thing can make your head spin trying to understand all the different strands

abc123
Senior Member
Posts: 2794
Joined: 10 May 2015, 18:15
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

Defiance wrote:
ArmChairCivvy wrote: An ex-Navy chief said on an Indian daily that they won't be buying any more of those as every arrested landing needs some remedial work afterwards... easy to make a navy plane into something else but v.v does not hold

This does not mean that the plane in itself was bad (Russia buying quite a few for their AF cause they, too, have been losing numbers by going for the top-top designs).
Yeah the IN aren't happy with MiG-29K, the main reason Russia went for MiG-29K over Su-33 was (so i hear) to do with carrier capacity and cost. At least it gave them a moderate starting point for deriving requirements for MRCBF but there's so many damn acronyms in Indian programs it can be a bit of a mess.

The wider Russian enterprise is moving away from the MiG design which is highlighted by the lacklustre support for MiG-35. Seems like they mainly were backing it to maintain a 'low cost' export offering, the RuAF is becoming a Flanker force with all the associated pros and cons.
MiG-35 is as dead as dodo.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 15912
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Is it not still in the running for the hundred+ Indian competition (which is not for the navy, who have said they are not going to buy more)?

There are two fighters that seem to be now you see it, now you don't, and out of these three Flanker is not one of the two:
"The country seems more interested in investing in the new Su-57 in addition to expanding the receipt of the latest variants of the most capable Flanker."

This is already half a year old source, but anyway: https://www.airway1.com/mig-35-the-reje ... roduction/
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Defiance
Donator
Posts: 819
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52
Has liked: 14 times
Been liked: 24 times
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Is it not still in the running for the hundred+ Indian competition (which is not for the navy, who have said they are not going to buy more)?
It's ostensibly still a program of record for the Russian air force for the time being. If the Russians come with a brochure and some specs India will hardly turn them away, who knows, maybe they'll offer a pretty good sweetener if they don't want to keep the MiG line going themselves.
abc123 wrote:MiG-35 is as dead as dodo.
Maybe, but if Russia is still pushing it in the export market there's a chance it can rise again from the flames, if the terms are right.

User avatar
xav
Senior Member
Posts: 1533
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 22:48
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 5 times

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by xav »

Indian Navy Commissions First P15B Destroyer INS Visakhapatnam
INS Visakhapatnam, a P15B stealth guided missile destroyer, was commissioned into the Indian Navy in the presence of Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh at the Naval Dockyard, Mumbai on November 21, 2021.

The Project 15B (P15B) / Visakhapatnam-class is the latest destroyer design currently under construction for the Indian Navy. These ships have been designed indigenously by the Indian Navy’s Directorate of Naval Design, New Delhi. Each ship spans 163 metres in length and 17.4 metres at beam and displaces 7,300 tonnes. These ships will be propelled by four gas turbines to achieve speed in excess of 30 knots.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... khapatnam/

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 6414
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 44 times
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

It seems to be considerably different from Stealth Warships build by other nations in its design.

Defiance
Donator
Posts: 819
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52
Has liked: 14 times
Been liked: 24 times
United Kingdom

Re: Indian Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

IAC Vikrant heads out for 3rd round of sea trials

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ea-trials/
Having gained adequate confidence in the ship’s abilities, the IAC now sails to undertake complex maneuvers to establish specific readings of how the ship performs in various conditions. In addition, various sensor suites of the ship would also be tested.
Seems a bit slow to get Vikrant geared up and into service. Vikramaditya was 5 years from launch to 2013 (granted she was a refurb) but we're 9 years down the road for Vikrant. She's expected to be commissioned later this year and undergo flight trials in 2023.

Post Reply