River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 4177
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 21:19
BB85 wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 17:25 The R2 won't be taking on Corvettes, they will be tracking and intercepting drug runners, people smugglers and anti piracy patrols. All of which can be performed with UAVs and DS-30 MkII. If they where to take on corvettes they would need armed with anti ship missiles, a better radar and CAAM
For patrolling in home waters, Caribbean, Gibralter and (currently) Falklands, then yes, River B2's are fine with a single DS-30 MkII. For being long term advance deployed without additional support EoS, then, IMO, they are inadequately armed with just one DS-30 MkII and some miniguns / MG.

They will be outgunned by most navies's Coastguards!!
:(
Why River B2 "EoS" cannot do the same tasks those on Caribbean, Gibralter and Falklands are doing? Those three OPVs will ALSO be outgunned by local Coastguards there. No difference.

Why many here think the condition at, say, West Africa (with HMS Trent) is more friendly than that on EoS?

We saw how HMS Trent did a good job on visiting west African nations, with RM aboard. The same thing can be done with HMS Spey and Tamar, I think. Indo-Pacific is a huge area, and there are many "basically friendly" nations there worth improving good relations with UK, not to fight-against, I think.

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 2813
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

@Donald-san, the threat levels in the Caribbean, western Med and the Falklands is low. I’d argue that the threat levels off the west of Africa is medium, similar to areas EoS.

Whilst, I’ve given up arguing for a 57mm gun that could be a permanent and appropriate level of protection, the ability to scale “lethality”/“defensive measures” remain. Additional bolt on /containerised (POD) weapons and off-board systems seems to be the way the RN is going.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1231
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Repulse Wrote:
“Whilst, I’ve given up arguing for a 57mm gun that could be a permanent and appropriate level of protection,”

Just because one cannot convince others of a course of action that should be taken, it does not mean that you should stop arguing for it. Others, who make no comment may appreciate the fact that your point of view is the correct one!

donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 4177
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Repulse wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 08:20 @Donald-san, the threat levels in the Caribbean, western Med and the Falklands is low. I’d argue that the threat levels off the west of Africa is medium, similar to areas EoS.

Whilst, I’ve given up arguing for a 57mm gun that could be a permanent and appropriate level of protection, the ability to scale “lethality”/“defensive measures” remain. Additional bolt on /containerised (POD) weapons and off-board systems seems to be the way the RN is going.
Thanks. On the "threat levels", my point is that the vast diversity of "EoS" is larger than those combining North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Med, Caribbean, Black Sea, Baltic or even Arctic.

For me, mentioning "the threat level of EoS in a single word" is so meaningless that it is similar to mixing the threat level of "Falkland islands, Atlantic, Med, though Black sea" in a single word. I cannot say "the threat level of Falkland island Atlantic, Med, and Black sea combined" is high or low.

"EoS" is not a district, it is 70% of the world.

I think we can say, sending Rive B2 to east Africa is good or bad. Maldives, Sri Ranca, Myanmar, Malaysia, Thai, Brunei, Indonesia, Vietnam, Papua New Guinia, many many Oceania nations, Philipinn, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, China, and (again) Russia. We can easily see the vast diversity of "threat levels" there. Surely there are many area River B2 can do as much as HMS Trent is doing in West Africa. This is what I meant.

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

I would still argue that of the 5 B2's 3 should be fitted with 1 x 57mm , 2 x 20mm , 4 x miniguns this would be for me a good level of protection. And as said before if put with a escort they could escort large groups of ships in the Gulf with say 1 B2 up front a group of ships next then the escort then more ships followed by the second B2

however it is worth saying at this time there are 9 River class ships in 3 classes operating in the Atlantic / Med and 5 River class ships in 3 classes operating EoS of these the the RN B1's are least armed and 2 HTMS ship are the most well armed with 1 x 76mm , 2 x 30mm and 2 x MG

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 2813
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 09:54 For me, mentioning "the threat level of EoS in a single word" is so meaningless
I would agree with that statement. The difference is IMO that there are powerful (and not always aligned) nations in the region who don't necessarily like the UK playing on their turf. The Atlantic and western med is closer and therefore we can provide other assets or support more easily.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

wargame_insomniac
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 23:33
wargame_insomniac wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 21:19
BB85 wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 17:25 The R2 won't be taking on Corvettes, they will be tracking and intercepting drug runners, people smugglers and anti piracy patrols. All of which can be performed with UAVs and DS-30 MkII. If they where to take on corvettes they would need armed with anti ship missiles, a better radar and CAAM
For patrolling in home waters, Caribbean, Gibralter and (currently) Falklands, then yes, River B2's are fine with a single DS-30 MkII. For being long term advance deployed without additional support EoS, then, IMO, they are inadequately armed with just one DS-30 MkII and some miniguns / MG.

They will be outgunned by most navies's Coastguards!!
:(
Why River B2 "EoS" cannot do the same tasks those on Caribbean, Gibralter and Falklands are doing? Those three OPVs will ALSO be outgunned by local Coastguards there. No difference.

Why many here think the condition at, say, West Africa (with HMS Trent) is more friendly than that on EoS?

We saw how HMS Trent did a good job on visiting west African nations, with RM aboard. The same thing can be done with HMS Spey and Tamar, I think. Indo-Pacific is a huge area, and there are many "basically friendly" nations there worth improving good relations with UK, not to fight-against, I think.
First up Caribbean, Gibralter and Falklands are all areas with significant British Overseas Territories. I use the term Carribean as a shorthand for covering all of Bermuda, British Virgin Isles, Anguila, Montserrat, Cayman islands, Turks and Caicos Islands. We have responsibility for their defence. The Overseas Patrol Squadron (formerly Fishery Protection Squadron) is responsible for patrolling their Extended Fisheries Zone.

Thus the River B2's are almost perfect for this task (I say almost because of lack of helicopter hangar).

When we look EoS, the only British Overseas Territories are Diego Garcia, with zero civilian population and a huge US base leased from UK, and the remote Pitcairn Islands with a population of 50. So the remit EoS is completely different.

If we are sending Spey and Tamar EoS it is because we cannot spare anything else. The quicker we have a spare General Purpose Frigate, whether T23 or eventually T31, then they should be replaced.

The key taks for RN EoS are maintaining the flow of merchant shipping from the Far East and Middle East. Hence the bases in Singapore, Oman and Bahrain are key to this. I dread to think what would happen if Spey and Tamar are sent to the Persian Gulf!! :(

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 2813
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 19:40 dread to think what would happen if Spey and Tamar are sent to the Persian Gulf!!
Depends on what they are being asked to do. Arguably better protected than a MCM.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 4177
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 19:40 First up Caribbean, Gibralter and Falklands are all areas with significant British Overseas Territories. I use the term Carribean as a shorthand for covering all of Bermuda, British Virgin Isles, Anguila, Montserrat, Cayman islands, Turks and Caicos Islands. We have responsibility for their defence. The Overseas Patrol Squadron (formerly Fishery Protection Squadron) is responsible for patrolling their Extended Fisheries Zone.

Thus the River B2's are almost perfect for this task (I say almost because of lack of helicopter hangar).

When we look EoS, the only British Overseas Territories are Diego Garcia, with zero civilian population and a huge US base leased from UK, and the remote Pitcairn Islands with a population of 50. So the remit EoS is completely different.

If we are sending Spey and Tamar EoS it is because we cannot spare anything else. The quicker we have a spare General Purpose Frigate, whether T23 or eventually T31, then they should be replaced.

The key taks for RN EoS are maintaining the flow of merchant shipping from the Far East and Middle East. Hence the bases in Singapore, Oman and Bahrain are key to this. I dread to think what would happen if Spey and Tamar are sent to the Persian Gulf!! :(
Thanks. I was more referring to HMS Trent's deployment on West Africa. She visited Ghana this month, and made a good relation with the local officials, first in decades... Stopped the long long UK absence there.

The same can be done at, say, Kenya, Maldives, Seishells, Madagascar, and South Afica. In addition, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Thai, Brunei, Papua Newguinia, and East Timor comes into my mind as "the same to Ghana" theater.

Once the T31s are commissioned and River B1 goes out at the same time, the two River B2 EoS will be sent back to UK. But, I also think, if there be River B1 replacement program in future, having one or two River B2 in EoS can provide many tasks there.

River B2 has a good endurance/range, and provides unrivaled long sea-going days T31 or any other escorts can provide. There are many things River B2s can do best in the RN fleet, even in EoS.

wargame_insomniac
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 23:46 Thanks. I was more referring to HMS Trent's deployment on West Africa. She visited Ghana this month, and made a good relation with the local officials, first in decades... Stopped the long long UK absence there.

The same can be done at, say, Kenya, Maldives, Seishells, Madagascar, and South Afica. In addition, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Thai, Brunei, Papua Newguinia, and East Timor comes into my mind as "the same to Ghana" theater.

Once the T31s are commissioned and River B1 goes out at the same time, the two River B2 EoS will be sent back to UK. But, I also think, if there be River B1 replacement program in future, having one or two River B2 in EoS can provide many tasks there.

River B2 has a good endurance/range, and provides unrivaled long sea-going days T31 or any other escorts can provide. There are many things River B2s can do best in the RN fleet, even in EoS.
Fair enough. I was concentrating on RN Overseas Naval bases in Singapore / Bahrain / Oman protecting merchant shipping in the Straits of Malacca & Hormuz and the Gulf of Aden. That to me is our main priority EoS, protecting against armed pirates and Iranian militia.

But yes, as you suggested visits to such countries and combined maritime operations with them could well be beneficial to RN in the long term. Good point.

Re T31's and River B1 replacements, yes I agree. If they could stretch a River B3 to maybe 110-115 metres long, then should be enough space to add a hangar and some extra guns (not excessive, maybe one 40mm main gun and couple of secondary guns of maybe 12.7mm / 20mm), then that would be an ideal way of spreading a regular RN presence whilst keeping the more expensive and capable escorts for more High Intensity missions with UKCSG etc.

Imagine a series of small squadrons, with T31 GP frigate and one or two River B2 / hypothetical B3's, hopefully with some RAF patrol / ASW planes for support. We could have such a squadron in Home waters, Cariibbean, South Atlantic, Gibralter, and then EoS in Oman, Bahrain and Singapore, maybe even Diego Garcia. Its a step too far from where we are now, but I think we can get use of GP Frigates and River OPV's to move closer towards it as a more regular RN presence across Atlantic and EoS.

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 00:30
donald_of_tokyo wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 23:46 Thanks. I was more referring to HMS Trent's deployment on West Africa. She visited Ghana this month, and made a good relation with the local officials, first in decades... Stopped the long long UK absence there.

The same can be done at, say, Kenya, Maldives, Seishells, Madagascar, and South Afica. In addition, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Thai, Brunei, Papua Newguinia, and East Timor comes into my mind as "the same to Ghana" theater.

Once the T31s are commissioned and River B1 goes out at the same time, the two River B2 EoS will be sent back to UK. But, I also think, if there be River B1 replacement program in future, having one or two River B2 in EoS can provide many tasks there.

River B2 has a good endurance/range, and provides unrivaled long sea-going days T31 or any other escorts can provide. There are many things River B2s can do best in the RN fleet, even in EoS.
Fair enough. I was concentrating on RN Overseas Naval bases in Singapore / Bahrain / Oman protecting merchant shipping in the Straits of Malacca & Hormuz and the Gulf of Aden. That to me is our main priority EoS, protecting against armed pirates and Iranian militia.

But yes, as you suggested visits to such countries and combined maritime operations with them could well be beneficial to RN in the long term. Good point.

Re T31's and River B1 replacements, yes I agree. If they could stretch a River B3 to maybe 110-115 metres long, then should be enough space to add a hangar and some extra guns (not excessive, maybe one 40mm main gun and couple of secondary guns of maybe 12.7mm / 20mm), then that would be an ideal way of spreading a regular RN presence whilst keeping the more expensive and capable escorts for more High Intensity missions with UKCSG etc.

Imagine a series of small squadrons, with T31 GP frigate and one or two River B2 / hypothetical B3's, hopefully with some RAF patrol / ASW planes for support. We could have such a squadron in Home waters, Cariibbean, South Atlantic, Gibralter, and then EoS in Oman, Bahrain and Singapore, maybe even Diego Garcia. Its a step too far from where we are now, but I think we can get use of GP Frigates and River OPV's to move closer towards it as a more regular RN presence across Atlantic and EoS.
First off we don't need to make the River class 110 meters to get what you want the B2's can be fitted with up to 76mm main gun and 30mm second armament as seen on HTMS Krabi also they can operate rotor USV's as seen from the Brazilian tests with S-100 Camcopter witch can be fitted with LMM or I-Master radar add to this something like Hero 120 loitering munitions which have a range of 40km and a loiter time of 1 hour and can be launched form the ship , rib or land by RM and the B2 as is can be hard hitting

Imagine a B2 with a 57mm , 2 x 20mm , 4 x Miniguns plus a platoon of RM , 2 x Camcopter and 20 Hero 120 now imagine the 2 x B2's EoS joined by a Wave class with a Wildcat

For me if we could get 3 LRG's going with a type 32 based on a Absalon and a MRSS and 3 Patrol groups going

wargame_insomniac
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Tempest414 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 10:56 First off we don't need to make the River class 110 meters to get what you want the B2's can be fitted with up to 76mm main gun and 30mm second armament as seen on HTMS Krabi also they can operate rotor USV's as seen from the Brazilian tests with S-100 Camcopter witch can be fitted with LMM or I-Master radar add to this something like Hero 120 loitering munitions which have a range of 40km and a loiter time of 1 hour and can be launched form the ship , rib or land by RM and the B2 as is can be hard hitting

Imagine a B2 with a 57mm , 2 x 20mm , 4 x Miniguns plus a platoon of RM , 2 x Camcopter and 20 Hero 120 now imagine the 2 x B2's EoS joined by a Wave class with a Wildcat

For me if we could get 3 LRG's going with a type 32 based on a Absalon and a MRSS and 3 Patrol groups going
I know USV's are the new coolness and it makes sense to develop RN capability with them, and I am sure that we will be able to rely on them in the future, once all kinks ironed out. But can we rely on them now instead of manned helos? And will they in the future replace manned helos entirely or simply add new functionality and options?

Call me old fashioned but I can see the RN still needing manned helos for some missions and think it would be good to give the ship's captain an and/or choice between them. But other than that we are not too far apart on what we were thinking.

Re Absalon, I belatedly caught an episode of Mighty Warships last night which featured the Absalon in the Gulf of Aden, running anti-piracy patrols against Somali pirates. She does look very capable as a warship, and with her additional flex deck and vehicle ramps, should suit running up to 200-300 embarked RM perfectly, along with attached light vehicles. Maybe with well deck rather than vehicle ramps to allow small landings on unprotected areas. So long as MRSS can provide enough helos that should be well-rounded small force.

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

the simple fact is we don't have enough Wildcats . UAV's like camcopter are well proven and would offer 70+% of the helicopter it also comes down to cost when thinking about a OPV adding the extra meters and a full hangar plus helicopter is a lot of money. the OPV's need organic air assets to allow wider search and track and eyes on for the ships command when boarding ops are taking place and this has started with Puma

As for a well dock on a Absalon it would take up to much of the flex deck for me add 2 x LCVP davits and a steel beach this along with the 2 x helicopters would allow the first wave of RM to get over the beach backed up by the MRSS witch for me must have 4 helicopters and well dock

User avatar
Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 2153
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Tempest414 wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 09:32 the simple fact is we don't have enough Wildcats.
Is it not time for the Army to hand over theirs?

They could be replaced as part of the Puma replacement programme allowing all RFA’s and Escorts access to multiple Wildcats if required.

This could be funded at least in part by the £500m saved due to the cancellation of the I-SSGW programme.

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 10:29
Tempest414 wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 09:32 the simple fact is we don't have enough Wildcats.
Is it not time for the Army to hand over theirs?

They could be replaced as part of the Puma replacement programme allowing all RFA’s and Escorts access to multiple Wildcats if required.

This could be funded at least in part by the £500m saved due to the cancellation of the I-SSGW programme.
As I have said in the past I would love nothing more than to see the Army get say 60 AW-149's to go with there Apache's and for the FAA to get the AAC's Wildcats but as said the OPV's with 2 x UAV's like Camcopter that can operate form a container plus 20 or so Hero 120's that can be launched form the ship or disembarked with the RM and launched from a rib or from land with a 40km range is still a big step

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

Interesting on Navy Lookout that a Danish boarding team where caught in exchange of fire that lead to four pirates being killed off the coast of Nigeria right in the area HMS Trent is operating now

wargame_insomniac
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Tempest414 wrote: 27 Nov 2021, 15:00 Interesting on Navy Lookout that a Danish boarding team where caught in exchange of fire that lead to four pirates being killed off the coast of Nigeria right in the area HMS Trent is operating now
Aye I saw that - was Esbern Snare = the sistership to the Absalon that had been conducting anti-piracy off the Gulf of Aden.

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

For me it shows the need for eyes on for the ships command using a UAV and if the contact boat opened fire there is a case for putting a LMM into it

wargame_insomniac
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Tempest414 wrote: 27 Nov 2021, 16:59 For me it shows the need for eyes on for the ships command using a UAV and if the contact boat opened fire there is a case for putting a LMM into it
I am a big fan of the LMM used as either a 5-7 rocket pod on Wildcat or as an addition to the DS-30M Mk II secondary gun, to give RN extra options vs small fast moving boats and drones. I would be more comfortable if it was fitted as standard for any ships EoS, certianly for those in Persian Gulf / Gulf of Aden.

As to whether better to use the DS-30M Mk II guns or LMM against specific threats, presumably that comes down to the experience of the officers and the nature of the threat. If the pirates have small arms then I presume that either a small burst of 30mm shells or some minguns is the most effective solution. If the pirates have RPG's or heavier firepower then it might make snse to deal with them quickly and accurately with LMM. From memory the story with Esben Snare is that the pirates in the Gulf of Guinea just had some small arms and that they failed to hit the Danish crew.

Keeping the discussion back focussed on River Class, this is why I am concerned that B2's are still touch underarmed with just a single DS-30M Mk II. I woud be more comfortable if they had a main gun of maybe Bofors 40mm and then a couple of 20mm / 30mm secondary guns. Because I fear that the B2's COULD be outgunned by pirates / Iranian militia (if serving in the Persian Gulf in the future).

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 27 Nov 2021, 19:22
Tempest414 wrote: 27 Nov 2021, 16:59 For me it shows the need for eyes on for the ships command using a UAV and if the contact boat opened fire there is a case for putting a LMM into it
I am a big fan of the LMM used as either a 5-7 rocket pod on Wildcat or as an addition to the DS-30M Mk II secondary gun, to give RN extra options vs small fast moving boats and drones. I would be more comfortable if it was fitted as standard for any ships EoS, certianly for those in Persian Gulf / Gulf of Aden.

As to whether better to use the DS-30M Mk II guns or LMM against specific threats, presumably that comes down to the experience of the officers and the nature of the threat. If the pirates have small arms then I presume that either a small burst of 30mm shells or some minguns is the most effective solution. If the pirates have RPG's or heavier firepower then it might make snse to deal with them quickly and accurately with LMM. From memory the story with Esben Snare is that the pirates in the Gulf of Guinea just had some small arms and that they failed to hit the Danish crew.

Keeping the discussion back focussed on River Class, this is why I am concerned that B2's are still touch underarmed with just a single DS-30M Mk II. I woud be more comfortable if they had a main gun of maybe Bofors 40mm and then a couple of 20mm / 30mm secondary guns. Because I fear that the B2's COULD be outgunned by pirates / Iranian militia (if serving in the Persian Gulf in the future).


This talk of up arming the B2's has two groups those who would and those who are happy with it as it is. As I have said in the past for me the only reason they got a 30mm was because that was all there was already in RN service at the time with the next gun up being the 114mm Mk-8 but now we will get the 40mm Mk4 and the 57mm both of these guns give a much needed base line anti-air capability.

As I have also said in the past for me given the role of the B2's the new base line fit should be

1 x 40mm , 2 x 20mm , 4 x Miniguns , 20 x Hero 120 , 2 x UAV's

This would give the B2's a base line air defence good surface defence and light OTH strike embarked or disembarked with the RM Platoon plus good OTH search and track

wargame_insomniac
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Tempest414 wrote: 28 Nov 2021, 10:41
wargame_insomniac wrote: 27 Nov 2021, 19:22 Keeping the discussion back focussed on River Class, this is why I am concerned that B2's are still touch underarmed with just a single DS-30M Mk II. I woud be more comfortable if they had a main gun of maybe Bofors 40mm and then a couple of 20mm / 30mm secondary guns. Because I fear that the B2's COULD be outgunned by pirates / Iranian militia (if serving in the Persian Gulf in the future).


This talk of up arming the B2's has two groups those who would and those who are happy with it as it is. As I have said in the past for me the only reason they got a 30mm was because that was all there was already in RN service at the time with the next gun up being the 114mm Mk-8 but now we will get the 40mm Mk4 and the 57mm both of these guns give a much needed base line anti-air capability.

As I have also said in the past for me given the role of the B2's the new base line fit should be

1 x 40mm , 2 x 20mm , 4 x Miniguns , 20 x Hero 120 , 2 x UAV's

This would give the B2's a base line air defence good surface defence and light OTH strike embarked or disembarked with the RM Platoon plus good OTH search and track
Yes - as I have said before we are fairly close on opinion of some simple things RN could do to up-gun the River B2's.

I am not sure what are the "Hero 120", and I still prefer 1*Wildcat and 1*UAV, until the UAV have PROVED in pratice that they can full replace manned copters.

Online
User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 3030
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

The Hero 120 is a loiter weapon capable of 1 hour loiter time and 40km range 2 can be carried by one man as said it could launch from the ship or a rib or by RM on a raid

we have seen it on display on a visit to the Themes by Tamar

donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 4177
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

River B1 HMS Severn in training. These basic but critically important tasks covered by "cheap to operate" but "has good sea-keeping" OPVs gives us good insights what a cheap patrol vessel can achieve.

OPVs are the real work horse of RN.


Ron5
Donator
Posts: 6301
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Lovely photo :thumbup:

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 6301
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

CGI of a River with a bigger gun & hangar ..
Image

Post Reply