Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[donald_of_tokyo]

Why start from the Type 21 when the Type 23 is a bigger, more modern and more appropriate starting point...

Thanks for comment. This is simply because T21 and T23 are based on different requirements.

T23 is hi-grade, hi-end ASW hull, claimed to be "the best ASW frigate" even in 2015. RN started T26 from T23, and we already see the result. Quite reasonable. Hi-grade ASW escort with GP functions turned out to be the expensive T26.

T21 never had "gold-plated" reputation, even at the time of build. However, the Vosper frigate, T21 and Mk10, were the LAST export frigate sucssess (other than smallish ones later) in Britain.

Thus, starting from T21 and complement its shortfall will be good way for this light frigate, I suppose.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Let's not forget that they also need to look good (like T21s... must be doable?).

T21 doe not look good? Yes I don't like their large funnel.

By the way, do you like OHPerry FFGs? They are told ugly, but I think it is beautiful, designed to its requirement, simple beauty.

So there are so many "personal taste", and I don't think it is important.

[ArmChairCivvy]

they also need to look good (like T21

Hi Donald, you read that the wrong way round.

Nothing wrong with Perry Class looks, a bit utilitarian for my taste. Compare that to T21s which look almost like a yacht (and Porsche owners would appreciate their capability to dash, too). More generally speaking, my taste is a bit retro, like the County Class and the Darings before the class now used in the RN.

But it was a joke anyway...

[Tony Williams]

Why start from the Type 21 when the Type 23 is a bigger, more modern and more appropriate starting point...

Thanks for comment. This is simply because T21 and T23 are based on different requirements.

T23 is hi-grade, hi-end ASW hull, claimed to be "the best ASW frigate" even in 2015. RN started T26 from T23, and we already see the result. Quite reasonable. Hi-grade ASW escort with GP functions turned out to be the expensive T26.

I see - I was thinking more in terms of dimensions and layout than copying any specific characteristics.

Any new frigate will of course have crew accommodation designed to a much higher standard than T21 or T23, and can also be expected to include some "stealth shaping" like all new high-end warships, so the design detail will be significantly different from any earlier vessels.

[shark bait]

By the way, do you like OHPerry FFGs? They are told ugly, but I think it is beautiful, designed to its requirement, simple beauty.

I think the Perry's would be a good model for us to follow.

A fleet of anti submarine frigates, and a fleet of guided missile frigates would work well together as part of an escort group, or be deployed alone and still be very capable, much like the Perry's did.

The Turkish have modified their Perry's and I think they are left with a very capable platform with the MK41vls and the Oto 76mm gun. Of course it would be radically different once built to modern royal navy standards, but its a reasonable concept to follow.

[marktigger]

Frigate wise Personally I liked the Type 12 & Leander Classes the Tribal class and the BatchIII Type 22 for looks. But at the time of the Leander/Type12 they were looking at low cost and GP platforms as well the Tribal class was meant to be a GP vessel more optmised for hot climates using allot of recovered kit. But there was the austere Type 14 Blackwood class which effectively became fisheries protection vessels because of their limited size. Hopefully the light frigate goes more along the lines of the Tribal than the Blackwood.
I do wonder of you stripped a 23 down to the hull and totally rebuilt them like they did with the type 15 conversions would it be cost effective to produce a GP frigate? Wonder what the t23's hull life is?

[shark bait]

I do wonder of you stripped a 23 down to the hull and totally rebuilt them like they did with the type 15 conversions would it be cost effective to produce a GP frigate? Wonder what the t23's hull life is?

This whole discussion has got me thinking the same thing. The T23's have had steel added and replaced so they have been well looked after.

I suppose it depends how far we would want to go. If your going to strip all the top off, replace all the machinery and then rebuild it to a T26 standard, it would be a massive undertaking. I imagine that has gone past the point of being economically sensible, where it is just cheaper to start from scratch.

That's just the inclination I get, its an interesting concept though.

[donald_of_tokyo]

@ Donald perhaps another ship to be looked at is the Takanami class, over 4000 tons and appears to be usefully equiped

Takanami is 6300t full load. With 32 cells of Mk.41 VLS, 5in G, hanger for 2 SH60J helicopter, TASS and bow sonar, and with 4 GTs, it was 55GYen per ship. At 2003, Yen was high 80yen/$, so it was 690M$ per ship. Not bad, but not cheap. (If converted in current currency 120yen/$, Takanami will look very cheap, only 460M$. But this is not fair comparison.)

But it was a joke anyway...

Thanks, I know. Actually I love RN ships in their outlook, especially Type23 and 42, as well as 45. And I don't like Type21, actually. But, outlook is outlook. Situation similarity to the current light frigate is high, I think, and thus we can (or must) learn a lot from them. County? Uhmm, may be no, but Daring (1950s), yes I like it!

[SKB]

Michael Fallon: "We also hope to add a lighter frigate between the offshore patrol vessel and Type 26 and to build more of those as well.

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/region ... z3uJ5rKk5d

[WhitestElephant]

Michael Fallon: "We also hope to add a lighter frigate between the offshore patrol vessel and Type 26 and to build more of those as well.

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/region ... z3uJ5rKk5d

All promising news, Fallon: " we will maintain a minimum fleet of 19 destroyers and frigates... We are going to see a bigger Royal Navy".

[Ron5]

More than what? More than OPV? More than aircraft carriers? More than Type 26. More than T23?

Probably more than zero.

[shark bait]

we will maintain a minimum fleet of 19 destroyers and frigates... We are going to see a bigger Royal Navy

19 is hardly a bigger navy. Whist the intent to increase is welcome, it is out of the control of this government.

There may be more rivers, but less mine hunters.
The may be more carriers, but only replacing the once they've scrapped.
So really its business as usual.

[serge750]

Hi guys

And also don't forget they got rid of the four type 22 back in 2010, really hope we get eight of the "lighter frigates" aswell as the eight type 26 aswell to help replace the type 22's.... being optimistic maybe, but.

[Digger22]

Alternatively, build a couple of Stretched Type 45 as dedicated 'Cruiser' escorts for the carriers in Peacetime. With Full capability rather than the 'Fitted for but not with' none ability, inc Long range SSM, LACM, Enhanced aviation and Flight deck facilities. Keeping the same basic T45 with a redesigned mid section, stretching her by around 20m, keeping down the design costs albeit still making for very expensive units. The benefits of course would be freeing up the rest of the 'Fleet' for other duties. Tool up the proposed new OPV's and away we go.

[shark bait]

Alternatively, build a couple of Stretched Type 45 as dedicated 'Cruiser' escorts for the carriers in Peacetime.

I'm confused about how that would represent our cheaper frigate.
Why wouldn't we just finally fit the assets we have with the MK41

[inch]

maybe something like the Incheon class /size ,who knows

[WhitestElephant]

Alternatively, build a couple of Stretched Type 45 as dedicated 'Cruiser' escorts for the carriers in Peacetime.

maybe something like the Incheon class /size ,who knows

It has to be "cheaper" and "lighter" than T26 per the SDSR! Yet it will also be "credible" according to Admiral Z... so no stretched T45s or Incheon's. It will have to be an entirely new design too, to sustain the design skills and complex warship industry.

But it probably wont be a specialised AAW or ASW frigate.

[shark bait]

It has to be "cheaper" and "lighter" than T26 per the SDSR! Yet it will also be "credible" according to Admiral Z... so no stretched T45s or Incheon's. It will have to be an entirely new design too, to sustain the design skills and complex warship industry.

But it probably wont be a specialised AAW or ASW frigate.

That sums it up perfectly for me.
I think once you remove the specialisms (some may say gold plating (I don't like that term)) such a target is achievable

[inch]

so you don't think Incheon "size" frigate would credible , too small ?

[shark bait]

so you don't think Incheon "size" frigate would credible , too small ?

I think so.

For a general purpose ship, the mission bay, hanger and flight deck are critical, all of which take up a lot of space.
You need large stores so the ship can be deployed long term without causing logistical nightmares.
And then you have to find some room for the weapons and systems that make it a credible platform. My personal opinion is there has to be a long VLS in there somewhere, which again take up lots of space.
Finally there is the crew. Modern crew require more room, which may be offset by lean manning.

All of that is going to be difficult to squeeze into a small platform without compromise, so I cant imagine we will see something as small as the Incheon's.

[inch]

ok cool cheers for that

[isc75]

I don't know if anybody's seen the latest update to BMTs Venator 110! It now feature's a 5 inch gun, 8 SSM, a 24 cell caam launcher and what appears to be an artisan radar. I wonder if this the basis for the future light frigate?

[isc75]

A few more pictures of the BMT Venator 110.

[malcrf]

I don't know if anybody's seen the latest update to BMTs Venator 110! It now feature's a 5 inch gun, 8 SSM, a 24 cell caam launcher and what appears to be an artisan radar. I wonder if this the basis for the future light frigate?

I like the cut of her jib!

[RichardIC]

I don't know if anybody's seen the latest update to BMTs Venator 110! It now feature's a 5 inch gun, 8 SSM, a 24 cell caam launcher and what appears to be an artisan radar. I wonder if this the basis for the future light frigate?

http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/6102250/B ... 0Brief.pdf

You don't have to be a genius to spot where this is being pitched. Estimated displacement has now grown to 4,000 tonnes and the technical brief specifically address lack of strike-length VLS silo.

They also seem to be emphasising survivability.