Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Could this new radar form the basis of the one that would initially be installed on TEMPEST? Also are we updating Tranches two and three or just three? Shame is we end up with fleets within fleets again.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
The Tempest lot have said that the technology will feed through to Tempest but not the actual radar.Lord Jim wrote:Could this new radar form the basis of the one that would initially be installed on TEMPEST? Also are we updating Tranches two and three or just three? Shame is we end up with fleets within fleets again.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
We will need to as the latest&greatest version will be the one for Luftwaffe. The radars parting ways (Hensoldt for the Lw) can be seen either as a positive - competition inducing innovation as one could conclude from the latest announcement - or as two dead ends, in the longer run, as the ordered quantities will not be able to sustain continuous production/ nxt-gen development.Lord Jim wrote: start benefiting from discoveries made within the TEMPEST programme as well
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
No, the latest and greatest is the version being developed for the RAF. Do some reading, it will have capabilities that the German one can only dream ofArmChairCivvy wrote:We will need to as the latest&greatest version will be the one for Luftwaffe. The radars parting ways (Hensoldt for the Lw) can be seen either as a positive - competition inducing innovation as one could conclude from the latest announcement - or as two dead ends, in the longer run, as the ordered quantities will not be able to sustain continuous production/ nxt-gen development.Lord Jim wrote: start benefiting from discoveries made within the TEMPEST programme as well
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Yep the Typhoon FGR6 will have a radar any other plane in western service can only dream of. The nearest two to this would be the full radar suite planned for the F-22 , but which was cancelled to save money, of the F-35s radar, though that of Typhoon should be more effective due to the =greater size of the "Dish". In theory the new weapon systems being developed for TEMPEST would also be compatible with this new radar, and this should allow both the Typhoon and F-35 use said weapons if they are available before TEMPEST and its related systems come on line.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Bit surprised by this, the direct quote from the Greek Defence Minister isn't in the article so how much weight to put behind it I have no idea...
https://www.aerotime.aero/29315-greece- ... r-typhoons
https://www.aerotime.aero/29315-greece- ... r-typhoons
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Would be nice, but unless we almost gifted them wouldn't it be more cost effective for them to buy more Rafale from France? Plus, given the current UK-French relationship and the wider Greek-French defence pact, France will pile on so much pressure to avoid this happening...Timmymagic wrote:Bit surprised by this, the direct quote from the Greek Defence Minister isn't in the article so how much weight to put behind it I have no idea...
https://www.aerotime.aero/29315-greece- ... r-typhoons
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Unless the Greeks coming bearing cold hard cash, and a lot of it at that, we should do no such thing. The T1 aircraft have a lot of value in terms of spares for the UK's remaining T2 and T3 aircraft...we also have decent relations with Turkey (even with the loathsome Erdogan in charge). Unless the Greeks would be willing to pay substantially more than their parts value we should avoid like the plague.serge750 wrote:I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
If there was a package it might be tempting to involve ships but ,
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/
so unless Greece wanted to add an order for such to sweeten any deal .
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/
so unless Greece wanted to add an order for such to sweeten any deal .
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Did I read that correctly - EUR 3b for three frigates and three years support? That's T26 territory
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Indeed and without the local build that was (according to most of the other bidders) seen as being an integral part of the deal....Caribbean wrote:Did I read that correctly - EUR 3b for three frigates and three years support? That's T26 territory
Of the 53 Tranche 1 Typhoons, I'm guessing we've already cannibalised a far amount of the retired aircraft, particularly the two-seaters that got binned first?Timmymagic wrote:Unless the Greeks coming bearing cold hard cash, and a lot of it at that, we should do no such thing. The T1 aircraft have a lot of value in terms of spares for the UK's remaining T2 and T3 aircraft...we also have decent relations with Turkey (even with the loathsome Erdogan in charge). Unless the Greeks would be willing to pay substantially more than their parts value we should avoid like the plague.serge750 wrote:I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
Ideally, if the Greeks could slide us north of €1bn for our remaining T1s, we could utilise the proceeds of any sale to build a couple of dozen new Typhoons, and push the unordered Lightnings to the late 20s/early 30s, before Tempest enters production, to fund the rest of the bill. Keeps the skills base at Warton for a few more years and retains the opportunity for exporting completed aircraft.
Interesting to think that Greece was fairly set on Eurofighter 20 years ago and looking to join the programme and procure 60-90 jets, likely from the German line. An interim F-16 purchase and the global financial crisis killed off the idea, with the recent Rafale sale presumably burying it.
Regarding the geopolitical angle, the announcement of the Fort (I) Class being sold to Egypt suggests the UK is taking a somewhat agnostic approach to the Eastern Med's deteriorating situation. At least as far as defence sales go. See also the failed T31 bid for the Hellenic Navy.
Although highly unlikely, it's curious to think that two air forces (+Qatar) might operate both children of the Future European Fighter Aircraft project side by side....
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" - Dr. Strangelove (1964)
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
All tricks in the bag should be considered to this end, in the light of a sizeable cut to the funds allocated to TempestJensy wrote: push the unordered Lightnings to the late 20s/early 30s, before Tempest enters production, to fund the rest of the bill. Keeps the skills base at Warton for a few more years and retains the opportunity for exporting completed aircraft.
... or is it that the co-operation on the engine side, with Japan, has brought more resources into the fold and the seeming cut is just a mirror image of that?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
I missed this. How much was cut?ArmChairCivvy wrote:in the light of a sizeable cut to the funds allocated to Tempest
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Headline level:Ron5 wrote:I missed this. How much was cut?ArmChairCivvy wrote:in the light of a sizeable cut to the funds allocated to Tempest
"The UK government's Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA) has revealed in its annual report published on 15 July a GBP450 million (USD612 million) cut in the budget to build the Tempest Future Combat Air System."
However, there are overlaps with other programs (UK defence cloud: CIRRUS and also co-operation outside the signed up (3) members to the Tempest prgrm) so I am not sure whether the cut is real, or just a matter of rearranging what monies are accounted for 'where'.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
I don't think the EU would allow it even if the Greeks had the money. France alone is owed something north of 40billion, that's some serious leverage. It may not be a bad thing to leave the eastern med to others, in fact it's likely inevitable consequence of the whole "IndoPacific tilt"Jensy wrote:Indeed and without the local build that was (according to most of the other bidders) seen as being an integral part of the deal....Caribbean wrote:Did I read that correctly - EUR 3b for three frigates and three years support? That's T26 territory
Of the 53 Tranche 1 Typhoons, I'm guessing we've already cannibalised a far amount of the retired aircraft, particularly the two-seaters that got binned first?Timmymagic wrote:Unless the Greeks coming bearing cold hard cash, and a lot of it at that, we should do no such thing. The T1 aircraft have a lot of value in terms of spares for the UK's remaining T2 and T3 aircraft...we also have decent relations with Turkey (even with the loathsome Erdogan in charge). Unless the Greeks would be willing to pay substantially more than their parts value we should avoid like the plague.serge750 wrote:I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
Ideally, if the Greeks could slide us north of €1bn for our remaining T1s, we could utilise the proceeds of any sale to build a couple of dozen new Typhoons, and push the unordered Lightnings to the late 20s/early 30s, before Tempest enters production, to fund the rest of the bill. Keeps the skills base at Warton for a few more years and retains the opportunity for exporting completed aircraft.
Interesting to think that Greece was fairly set on Eurofighter 20 years ago and looking to join the programme and procure 60-90 jets, likely from the German line. An interim F-16 purchase and the global financial crisis killed off the idea, with the recent Rafale sale presumably burying it.
Regarding the geopolitical angle, the announcement of the Fort (I) Class being sold to Egypt suggests the UK is taking a somewhat agnostic approach to the Eastern Med's deteriorating situation. At least as far as defence sales go. See also the failed T31 bid for the Hellenic Navy.
Although highly unlikely, it's curious to think that two air forces (+Qatar) might operate both children of the Future European Fighter Aircraft project side by side....
There's been some chatter that Bangladesh may be a potential customer (!).Don't laugh - a booming economy and proximity to China, ex-Soviet jets that need replacing.
https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh ... -the-skies
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
One can read a lot into v.0 (it's in the name)
whereas the divergence between 1 & 2 will have long-term consequences for Europe's DEFENCE INDUSTRY
- oh well, have said it before (and might be wrong )
whereas the divergence between 1 & 2 will have long-term consequences for Europe's DEFENCE INDUSTRY
- oh well, have said it before (and might be wrong )
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/ra ... -hebrides/
The next few days will test our ability with the minimum footprint of people and kit to receive, debrief, re-arm, refuel and rebrief a Combat Air capability. In short bursts of activity, we will use an A400M to bring in kit and also directly refuel our in-situ fuel bowser to support the Typhoon – an activity delivered by 1 Expeditionary Logistics Squadron from RAF Wittering. At the same time, 6 Squadron engineers will service and simulate re-arming the aircraft while the crews take advantage of our deployed comms capability to debrief and rebrief prior to re-launching.
The Exercise is designed to test a fundamental question: what is the minimum footprint of people and kit and processes required to successfully deploy and sustain aircraft to a temporary location at short notice.
The RAF have chosen to use Stornoway as a location due to its relative remoteness, which in turn has forced the deploying elements to consider Air transportable options; this removes the easy solutions that simply deploying from known main operating bases provide. Although currently local to the UK and utilising RAF assets, Agile Combat Exercises will grow to support United States Air Forces in Europe Force Elements and those of NATO and Joint Expeditionary Force partners.
The next few days will test our ability with the minimum footprint of people and kit to receive, debrief, re-arm, refuel and rebrief a Combat Air capability. In short bursts of activity, we will use an A400M to bring in kit and also directly refuel our in-situ fuel bowser to support the Typhoon – an activity delivered by 1 Expeditionary Logistics Squadron from RAF Wittering. At the same time, 6 Squadron engineers will service and simulate re-arming the aircraft while the crews take advantage of our deployed comms capability to debrief and rebrief prior to re-launching.
The Exercise is designed to test a fundamental question: what is the minimum footprint of people and kit and processes required to successfully deploy and sustain aircraft to a temporary location at short notice.
The RAF have chosen to use Stornoway as a location due to its relative remoteness, which in turn has forced the deploying elements to consider Air transportable options; this removes the easy solutions that simply deploying from known main operating bases provide. Although currently local to the UK and utilising RAF assets, Agile Combat Exercises will grow to support United States Air Forces in Europe Force Elements and those of NATO and Joint Expeditionary Force partners.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
The RAF has been doing this sort of thing for years, the Jaguars, due to the role often deployed on exercise in an austere fashion.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Translation - Germany won't have a budget for a replacement anytime soon. Green Foreign Minister=, enough said.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
A typhoon with an air to air kill, the stories may go on a bit……now where’s the topgun music
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