Australian Defence Force

[Repulse]

J. Tattersall good question - my assumption is that the gun would be used to stop (disable) larger ships.

[R686]

J. Tattersall good question - my assumption is that the gun would be used to stop (disable) larger ships.

That’s my take on why as well, but it begs the question why doesn’t border force have the same capability?

[Mercator]

"Britain will press its case to build Australia’s promised nuclear-powered submarines during an upcoming visit by a British ­nuclear boat to Perth.

The Astute-class submarine has been sailing in a task group with British aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth on its maiden voyage through the Indo-Pacific.

Defence sources in Canberra and Western Australia have confirmed the fast attack boat is scheduled to visit Perth naval base HMAS Stirling – the home of Australia’s Collins-class submarines – in coming weeks.

The British will use the visit to showcase the Astute’s capabilities to the Royal Australian Navy, with Australian sailors and officers expected to go to sea on the UK nuclear boat...

...The scheduled visit comes just weeks after British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said he believed the UK would build Australia’s nuclear-powered subs. “We are in a strong position to help the Australians achieve that capability so I am very confident that British engineering, British skills, Australian nous, will deliver a very good submarine,” Mr Wallace said this month.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has also suggested Australia’s new submarines would be British-made, and AUKUS would create “hundreds” of highly skilled jobs across the UK and reinforce Britain’s place “at the leading edge of science and technology”."

[J. Tattersall]

J. Tattersall good question - my assumption is that the gun would be used to stop (disable) larger ships.

That’s my take on why as well, but it begs the question why doesn’t border force have the same capability?

Unless such ships are posing a real threat (i.e. they are demonstrably hostile towards RAN, Border Force, or 3rd parties) then such an approach poses real LOAC questions. One ordinarily can't use armed force to disable a vessel unless it poses a threat, and the force used needs to be proportionate.

[Tempest414]

This suggests a 30mm gun also:

https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/marit ... iled-in-wa

Interesting to see if it receives the same criticism in this forum as the B2 Rivers for only having a 30mm as its main armament.

As said up thread if these ships stay in home waters then like the RB1's with there 20mm all well and good I would say

[Mercator]

A good thread arising out of today's Defence Estimates here:



For those that are unfamiliar with the workings of the Australian Federal Parliament, the Senate has various subcommittees that are tasked with reviewing the government's budget expenditures, both proposed and expended. There are usually two periods in the year of what we call "Senate Estimates". It's basically a week of hearings by the various Senate committees into the workings of individual departments and other federal governmental bodies. Today was the turn of the Defence Department under the Senate committee for "Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade", otherwise known as "Defence Estimates" for those that pay attention to the process.
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bu ... mates/fadt

Unfortunately the transcripts take a couple of days to come out, otherwise I would just drop a link to that. It is sometimes 4-6 hours of oral testimony from across the full financial activities of the department though. It's a lot. They know they have limited time and they focus on the juicy bits for the most part, but still, keyword searches are your friend. Depending on who is asking the questions, it can sometimes be a very useful way to learn what the department knows about various programs. There is a reasonable obligation for them to disclose budget blowouts, etc, so with careful questioning there is sometimes quite a bit of gold to be dug out.

Of course it also turns into a political bunfight sometimes as well because the soundbites of the really big fuckups make good TV. As does a good shouting match. That said, I would say about 80% of the senators that show up for this take their job fairly seriously in this area and some of them do have quite genuine interests in the subject area. For example one South Australian Senator is a former submariner and often knows how to ask the right questions, if you ignore the part about him wanting nothing but massive amounts of shipbuilding in his state.

So anyway that's why a few juicy Defence stories will trickle out of the Australian media today with probably a few think pieces from the usual commentators a few days later.

[R686]

seems like the building of the Pacific Support Ship in Australia has been dropped as well, seem a new build is imminent but what type is still the $64000 question.

Hope its not another Skandi Bergen type again


https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... d=msedgntp

[Mercator]

My bet would be for some type of RoRo. Fairly cheap, even new.

[R686]

My bet would be for some type of RoRo. Fairly cheap, even new.

Yeah a ro/pax ship would make the most logical sense with medical facilitates and the ability to have field hospitals ready to go on its own organic transport.

Might be wise to keep a small fleet of the Mack 6x6 in various configurations for fuel water and general cargo with both P1 &P2 trailers to move engineering equipment

Might be showing my bias for the old school transport fleet but you know what I mean, dont think any No.1 Mk.4 internationals are getting around anymore but gee weren't they something to get around in

[Mercator]

A pretty good news roundup of the two big ticket revelations from today's Defence Estimates:

[Mercator]

My bet would be for some type of RoRo. Fairly cheap, even new.

Yeah a ro/pax ship would make the most logical sense with medical facilitates and the ability to have field hospitals ready to go on its own organic transport.

Might be wise to keep a small fleet of the Mack 6x6 in various configurations for fuel water and general cargo with both P1 &P2 trailers to move engineering equipment

Might be showing my bias for the old school transport fleet but you know what I mean, dont think any No.1 Mk.4 internationals are getting around anymore but gee weren't they something to get around in

The other option I've been thinking about is the supposed synergy between the Pacific Support Vessel (or whatever its formal name was) and the Joint Support Vessel they were talking about as a replacement for Choules. At different times these have been the same vessel, just on rotation or something (I think). I'm straining my memory a bit, and part of the problem is the department itself has changed its mind a few times since Christopher Pyne floated the idea. If they have given up on the local domestic build of that one in WA, at least for now, it is possible they might contract Navantia to build the first one in Spain and use that as the Pacific vessel, at least initially. It would mean the whole thing stays as a Navy asset though, which at one time was not their intention. After that they can either continue building the other one or two vessels in that class they were thinking about, in Spain, or start a local built in WA again. Perhaps once the OPVs wind down, though that's probably a decade away.
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/pa ... ip-design/

[seaspear]

A little bit more information on the "Loyal Wingman " this article suggests flight hours in excess of the S/H when fully loaded for missions also enabling a manned aircraft to manage four of these types of aircraft during such missions, would unarmed R.A.A.F aircraft also be able to control such? e.g. Poseidon
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/specia ... 22430f5dbd

[R686]

https://www.9news.com.au/national/frenc ... a950c28657

Earlier, Mr Morrison and Mr Macron crossed paths at the G20 summit in Rome.
Photos from Rome showed Mr Morrison and Mr Macron greeting briefly in a crowd.
"He was having a chat with someone and I went up and just put my arm on his shoulder and said 'g'day Emmanuel', and 'look forward to catching up in the next couple of days'," Mr Morrison told reporters from Rome.

If this is true, I dip my lid to scomo, how pissed would Macron be hey

[seaspear]

It is getting interesting at the G20 with Macron of France after accusing Morrison of lying becomes indignant over the revelation of texts to show otherwise
https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 0149cbe915
other reports indicated the U.S aides to the president were involved in the nondisclosure to France of the impending submarine announcement perhaps not informing their own president lol

[Scimitar54]

Well what does he expect when after being elected last time, within months (if not weeks) he penalised many of the people who voted for him (Yellow Jerseys/Jackets). Everything to do with France’s international relations at present is being played for how it affects one Presidential candidates credibility. Why you may ask ? That is because he has next to none at home !

My sincere apologies to any of his supporters that this might upset. !

[Mercator]

[Mercator]

“Everything was timed and understood completely,” one source in Canberra said. “We had a decision timeline that everyone had to hit on different marks. The announcement was made within the same news cycle because you can’t cancel the biggest procurement in our history and not have an answer to the question of what next? The sequencing was understood by everybody that that was the only way we could do it.”

[R686]

“Everything was timed and understood completely,” one source in Canberra said. “We had a decision timeline that everyone had to hit on different marks. The announcement was made within the same news cycle because you can’t cancel the biggest procurement in our history and not have an answer to the question of what next? The sequencing was understood by everybody that that was the only way we could do it.”

Yes it seems like the Biden administration is doing everything to appease the French while throwing Morrison under the bus know we need them more than they need us. But reality is we need each other equally

Australia is very strategic to US military plans the French not so much. The only real use of the the French is trade into the EU

[ArmChairCivvy]

Australia is very strategic to US military plans the French not so much. The only real use of the the French is trade into the EU

While the first sentence is true, the second is not... if Trump era plans of scaling down AFRICOM still hold.
- the new chief of chiefs announced that he is doing a review (global posture), but either he is still at it - or I have missed the outcome
- btw, at the Oz end of 'it', does it look that US presence in Darwin is changing from rotational to include also permanent elements?

[R686]

Australia is very strategic to US military plans the French not so much. The only real use of the the French is trade into the EU

While the first sentence is true, the second is not... if Trump era plans of scaling down AFRICOM still hold.

Not so sure about that either French arrogance is not doing themselves too many favors on the Africa Continent

[Defiance]

Not so sure about that either French arrogance is not doing themselves too many favors on the Africa Continent

IMO I think the opposite, if the French can arm-twist the US for more support in Africa I think they'd consider that a decent concession. At least until they pull out, then it might start up again.

[SKB]

[inch]

Wondering if he going to get a visit to barrow also

[Scimitar54]

That would be quite an astute move !

[R686]

There is no doubt that AUKUS members withheld information from France in regards to Australia options regarding submarines

But this article leaves us with questions whether President Biden can remember important information or is he just playing politics and acting like he does not know

It actually comes down to who can Australia really trust if you are prepared to throw an ally under the bus

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/peta ... 36a24b0ac8