Australian Defence Force

[SKB]

Link: https://www.baesystems.com/en-aus/artic ... ase-begins

[Mercator]

[seaspear]

A third Redback has been delivered for assessment
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... -australia

[Lord Jim]

I still find it unbelievable that the Australian Army will have nearly twice as many IFVs as the British Army is they purchase the planned number!

[seaspear]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/ ... l/13017700
Australia,s f35a fleet of 30 has achieved certification to commence operations

[Mercator]

incremental improvements...

[R686]

incremental improvements...

Pity its not 3 to bring the fleet to 15 air-frames under the rule of 3's 5 lots of 3

[Mercator]

For the moment that's about 2 'orbits' [constantly patrolled areas] of about 4-5 each, plus the stay behind training and depot aircraft. Would need 17+ to get 3 'orbits'. So, meh...

I'll take it, but I don't feel we went up a tier in effect just yet.

[seaspear]

When you take into consideration the addition of the 7MQ-4C Tritons that provides some coverage
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/key-e ... s-security
https://www.airforce.gov.au/technology/ ... d-aircraft
Also the 4 MC-55a Peregrineintelligence aircraft on order provides a real commitment
This article From the Strategist suggests Australia should already be considering the replacement for the F35A
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/edito ... -the-f-35/

[Mercator]

When you take into consideration the addition of the 7MQ-4C Tritons that provides some coverage
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/key-e ... s-security
https://www.airforce.gov.au/technology/ ... d-aircraft
Also the 4 MC-55a Peregrineintelligence aircraft on order provides a real commitment
This article From the Strategist suggests Australia should already be considering the replacement for the F35A
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/edito ... -the-f-35/

that's fine for surface warfare but for ASW, esp SSKs, you gotta be there 24/7 to suppress snort opportunities as much as try and catch them. When you leave for a bit - and they'll know - they'll snort then go do the nasty to someone.

[seaspear]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-31/ ... n/13022488 like this for sneaky

[ArmChairCivvy]

they'll snort then go do the nasty to someone

Snorting habit is bad, but I think AIP is one of the areas where 'the West' still has a clear lead.

[seaspear]

This article refers to the prevous censorship of the Hawkei report by the auditor apparently on behalf of Thales
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-09/ ... d/13044330
I'm not sure if there is much or any advantage to the Australian Hawkei compared to the U.S Oshkosh l-atv
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV that was also considered at a cheaper price

[ArmChairCivvy]

Will revisit the links later, but
had the same gut-feeling,,, that there was nothing more to it than local manufacture.

Compare with the brief appearance of Bushmaster (Thales) in the French competition
,,, and what they went for looks v much like the Oshkosh l-atv

[Mercator]

They paid more than they needed to for the capability in the vehicles, no doubt. But it was never meant to be a value for money proposition. They were paying for an industry capability that, arguably, is serving them well. Not just the base vehicle but continuous upgrades, each to their own specifications - and every dollar spent circulates in the local economy.

If they can stick with it for a while - across several vehicles and/or iterations thereof – it will become better value for money.

Now you can take that too far and go crazy for every little domestic industry that provides some capability. And I think the UK, for example, has fallen down that trap in the past and struggled to make ends meet. But for Australia, this is a modest investment with reasonable returns, I think.

[seaspear]

This article suggests a development pathway for this vehicle
https://cove.army.gov.au/article/hawkei ... n-we-do-it
There have been reports of safety issues with this vehicle even design e.g not being able to adjust mirror from inside the vehicle poor protection of the engine compartment this may be teething problems but should this have been spotted much earlier?

[ArmChairCivvy]

A lot of emphasis on the digitised and dispersed environment and hence the (proposed) move into the armoured car direction.

Some impressive features, like the 9-15 hrs of power for 'silent watch'. But some changes of direction as well: moving away from the armoured crew citadel to all (not quite? i seems) around protection and thus putting underslung-carry by a Chinook in doubt - though it was one of the design objectives.

More generally, if you split up too large a proportion of your forces into 4-man teams, so the old adage that a casualty - of whatever degree - takes two further team members out for a duration... leaves the driver (or the gunner, if staying stationary is required)

[Mercator]

This article suggests a development pathway for this vehicle
https://cove.army.gov.au/article/hawkei ... n-we-do-it
There have been reports of safety issues with this vehicle even design e.g not being able to adjust mirror from inside the vehicle poor protection of the engine compartment this may be teething problems but should this have been spotted much earlier?

safety, compared to what? The landrover? Or the light PMV class that never existed before?

Everyone has to start somewhere and I bet the JLTV test reports make for similar reading. Some things just take time and money, and/or good PR people, before everyone is happy.

[R686]

ARH Tiger is done and dusted,

As per Minister of Defence;
The Australian Army’s armed reconnaissance capability will be strengthened following the selection of Boeing Apache Guardian to replace Army’s Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter (ARH) from 2025.

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/min ... capability

[ArmChairCivvy]

Have lost track of the different prgrms; the SF were due some extra helos, to be relieved by new purchases
- or is that old news, changed since?

[R686]

Have lost track of the different prgrms; the SF were due some extra helos, to be relieved by new purchases
- or is that old news, changed since?

Good Question . i had forgotten all about those.

i have to search and see what the latest is


Edit
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/ne ... elicopters

All aircraft for Land 2097 will be new build. Bids for the program go in the box on July 10 this year with the preferred tenderer expected to go through contract negotiations in Q4 in 2021 through until mid 2022 and signing at the end of 2022.

[Lord Jim]

Please ignore below just seen the post further up.

Just as important at the bottom is a link to an article stating that Australia has chosen the Apache Guardian to replace the ARH(Tiger), beating the AH-1Z Viper and an upgraded Tiger. The requirement is for 29 aircraft.
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/ne ... eplacement

[R686]

I suppose the next question will be what happens with the Tiger airframes?

I wonder if Airbus will buy them as a source of spares for the remaining operators or someone else takes them on themselves as a low upfront cost of fielding a gunship capability, not sure who would be interested to be honest

[BlueD954]

This will affect the UK's MRV-P programme?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Vintage wine keeps getting better; but at some point it turns into vinegar