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BAE Hawk (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.
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hovematlot
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby hovematlot » 13 Jul 2015, 22:37

I'm sure they had a secondary Air Defence role with 2 x Sidewinders and an Aden cannon. I guess the new Hawks have a similar role?

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shark bait
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby shark bait » 14 Jul 2015, 00:14

hovematlot is correct, they where modified to provide a short range interceptor role. I think it was more of a last ditch effort to provide some cover if all other method's failed. These days such a capability is useless.

I have never seen any mention of the T2 being weapons capable, it doesn't have a radar so I'm not sure what good it would be anyway. I don't think it would be with equipping it for an air to air role again, the typhoon is vastly superior and we have enough of those to comfortability cover the UK (and do it like a boss).

There is a hawk 200 variant, used by some Asian air forces where they took out the second seat and used the space for radar and weapons equipment, that has seen action in air to air and air to ground scenarios. However despite the name I think it is much closer to the T1 than the T2 so is not much use to us.

The T2 has 5 pilons, and 2 wing tip rails but they aren't used. With that though there is plenty of room for a drop tank and then plenty of brimstons. It's worth nothing the hawk is only small, and as such it can't take much weight and still prove useful, however it doesn't need to carry large payloads.

It could be well suited for bombing ISIS, especially since those shorties only reportedly launch 1 or 2 missiles at a time, and there is little or no airborne threat. The hawk is also very cheap, unlike the the typhoon. Sending hawks over there also means we still have enough typhoons to cover the UK's skies and play games with the Russians.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 Jul 2015, 00:24

Not sure they have seen any action ? (there was a big "stink" about Hawks for Indonesia at the time when their paramilitaries were terrorising the Timor (East) population).

The Malaysian 200's are also anti-ship capable.

Some countries in Europe plan to use the Hawks as A2G with their rocket pods against armoured columns (in situations where those are nicely channelled along a road, and unguided projectiles can have a good effect). The Hawks can also, due to their low flying qualities and manoeuvrability, be supreme AH hunters.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby shark bait » 14 Jul 2015, 20:45

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Some countries in Europe plan to use the Hawks as A2G with their rocket pods against armoured columns (in situations where those are nicely channelled along a road, and unguided projectiles can have a good effect). The Hawks can also, due to their low flying qualities and manoeuvrability, be supreme AH hunters.


What country's? I haven't heard that before, only seem intentions from the Indians, which we should totally get on board with .
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 Jul 2015, 21:39

I'll take the opportunity to make it a riddle:

The country that
- bought Hawks off Switzerland, to make the fleet last longer
- upgraded them to glass cockpits, believing that the F-16 model of "joint school" in one country for all (willing) could be replicated

Has 26 going on for a good number of years, from the original 50, this Air Force has purchased two additional batches of the aircraft. In 1993, seven new Hawk Mk 51As were bought, and then more (18) with low airframe hours from Switzerland.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby shark bait » 14 Jul 2015, 22:29

ArmChairCivvy wrote:I'll take the opportunity to make it a riddle:
.


How fun!

Wiki made it quite easy as Finland are the only European operator, to be honest I didn't realise anyone in Europe still used them.

Switch those rockets to brimstones, and equipment taken from the outgoing tornadoes I believe it would be a useful aircraft, proven and robust. Should also have some export potential.
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby arfah » 28 Mar 2016, 08:45

.................
-<>-<>-<>-

Why this forum is pish!

1: Ineffective moderators
2: Too many fantasists ruining dedicated equipment threads with notions of what gun/mortar/artillery/missiles the equipment should have because it makes their panties moist.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby Ianmb17 » 29 Mar 2016, 13:49

£372 million investment for Hawk support sustains 700 UK jobs


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/372- ... 00-uk-jobs

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 23 Jun 2016, 16:25


bobp
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby bobp » 23 Jun 2016, 17:01

Good news as the UK supplies a lot of parts for their production.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby Ianmb17 » 01 Nov 2016, 18:23

Red arrows to get new jets but still to decide which

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37833311

BBC have edited original headline original below

Red Arrows aerobatic display team to get new aircraft

The Red Arrows aerobatic team will get new planes, Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon has confirmed.
The announcement comes as RAF stations in Lincolnshire celebrate their 100th anniversary.
There has been some uncertainty in recent years whether the team based at RAF Scampton would be retained.
Sir Michael said the team's current Hawk jets need to be replaced and a decision will be made over the next couple of years.
He said it was too early to say which aircraft would replace the Hawk jets.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby bobp » 01 Nov 2016, 19:17

BAE desperate for orders with the Hawk line closing soon as well as the Typhoon. Apart from the Taranis and maintenance deals they need work to keep people in work.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby marktigger » 01 Nov 2016, 19:33

rebuilt Legacy hawks?

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby Gabriele » 01 Nov 2016, 20:45

Far more concerned about 736 NAS which will lose its Hawks in 2020.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby shark bait » 01 Nov 2016, 20:55

Textron Scorpion taking its place?

Heard RAF are considering moving 100 squadron to Scampton to keep the old ones together out to 2027 and presumably selling off Leeming
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby Gabriele » 01 Nov 2016, 21:07

shark bait wrote:Textron Scorpion taking its place?


Maybe, maybe no. ASDOT is the programme that will or will not deliver a replacement and a future for the unit, that is all we know for now. Whether ASDOT is successful and Scorpion is selected is all yet to be seen.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby marktigger » 02 Nov 2016, 22:05

shark bait wrote:Textron Scorpion taking its place?

Heard RAF are considering moving 100 squadron to Scampton to keep the old ones together out to 2027 and presumably selling off Leeming


that would make sense

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby marktigger » 02 Nov 2016, 22:07

Gabriele wrote:Far more concerned about 736 NAS which will lose its Hawks in 2020.


736, 100 & red arrows and i think there are a few other minor units operating small numbers of hawks could all be swept up into this maybe Bae will offer an update program which could be exported ot other "legacy" hawk users?

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby SKB » 03 Nov 2016, 01:55

thinks "nine red Tornados" :twisted:

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby bobp » 03 Nov 2016, 05:31

SKB wrote:thinks "nine red Tornados

Remember the Tornados are just as old and tired as the T1 Hawks so not likely.

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby RetroSicotte » 03 Nov 2016, 08:04

SKB wrote:thinks "nine red Tornados" :twisted:


Damn unlikely and the show would have to remove most of the iconic moments...but the planes would look cool. The Union Flag on those huge tails the Tornados have...yum!

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby marktigger » 03 Nov 2016, 10:42

would be loud!

but how much would it cost?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 03 Nov 2016, 10:57

Took this one from airforce-technology.com

" In May 2012 Saudi Arabia signed a contract with BAE systems to provide supply 55 Pilatus PC-21 aircraft and 22 BAE Systems Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer aircraft, which will be used to train pilots to fly Eurofighter Typhoon jets."

BAE selling a system, for someone else to operate & maintain. As they do, BAE & Babcock, with nuclear subs.

So there still seems to be some life in the Hawk business; where are they built these days, btw? Not in India (solely)?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby marktigger » 03 Nov 2016, 11:05

i would say there is a "market" for hawk updates and modernisation like what the Finn's did. UK Mod as launch customer maybe sales to saudi, Kuwat, Oman, Indonesia, Malaysia could follow?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: BAE Hawk

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 03 Nov 2016, 15:33

marktigger wrote: hawk updates and modernisation like what the Finn's did. UK Mod as launch customer maybe sales to saudi, Kuwat, Oman, Indonesia, Malaysia could follow?



The idea with trainer a/c is that they get flown a lot (at a cheap per hr price, when you graduate towards the "fighter" domain.

Most of the Hawks were sold a long time ago. That's why the Finns topped "up" their fleet with very low hrs Hawks from the Swiss. Not enough in number, though, to maintain the training pipeline.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)


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