UK Defence Forum

RunningStrong wrote:

Ron5 wrote: Too pricey for one thing and more than a little under powered for another. Not even their own manufacturer believed in them enough to put them forward

Cracking bit of armchair engineering there! Never heard the FH described as underpowered by a user. Is your experience in spreadsheets?

Haven't you? I've read quite a few comments on army blogs saying exactly that plus attributing poor reliability to the same factor.

PS my experience between the sheets is none of your business

Ron5 wrote:

RunningStrong wrote:

Ron5 wrote: Too pricey for one thing and more than a little under powered for another. Not even their own manufacturer believed in them enough to put them forward

Cracking bit of armchair engineering there! Never heard the FH described as underpowered by a user. Is your experience in spreadsheets?

Haven't you? I've read quite a few comments on army blogs saying exactly that plus attributing poor reliability to the same factor.

PS my experience between the sheets is none of your business

I haven't. I've heard musings that it's a complicated vehicle and that it was maintenance intensive in 'Stan. But let's not forget it's potentially 50C plus and dusty. Nothing is low maintenance in that environment.

RunningStrong wrote: Nothing is low maintenance in that environment.

Nothing except a Toyota Hilux lol

All I have is second hand gossip from army blogs and a couple anonymous quotes from the aussie program where Foxhound was rejected in favor of Hawkai. Some aussies were not really impressed with Foxhound but perhaps some NIH crept in.

So jack shit really.

Foxhound I think is a 7.5 ton vehicle and TopGear (???) says its Austrian engine is 3.2l inline 6, 215bhp and 368 lb ft torque.

I checked my local ads and good ole Jim Click my local Ford dealer has a Ford F350 truck for sale (common truck around these parts) that has a gross unladen weight of about 5.5tons (not sure if that is directly comparable to the Foxhound) with a Yankee 6.7l turbo diesel V8 engine, 475bhp, and 1050lb ft torque.

Don't ask about pricing, suffice it to say good ole J will fill your street with F350's for the price of one Foxhound.

God knows what a JLTV has powerwise, I think it's classified. I'd guess double the Foxhound.

Hawkei has exactly the same engine and can't weigh that much less. But I've read about how the people who use Foxhound don't like it that much.

Andy-M wrote:Hawkei has exactly the same engine and can't weigh that much less. But I've read about how the people who use Foxhound don't like it that much.

I thought Hawkei had a tad more power, caught a glance when I was trawling for Foxhound info.

Ron5 wrote:

Andy-M wrote:Hawkei has exactly the same engine and can't weigh that much less. But I've read about how the people who use Foxhound don't like it that much.

I thought Hawkei had a tad more power, caught a glance when I was trawling for Foxhound info.

The brochure says 200kw, I have no idea how much that is in good old fashioned horsepower.

Andy-M wrote:The brochure says 200kw, I have no idea how much that is in good old fashioned horsepower.

200 kw = 268 hp

Based on public figures Hawkei has around 30% higher power to weight ratio than Foxhound

Weird how they went for completely the wrong spec when a more powerful engine was right there, is there any way they can either uprate the current ones, or swap in more powerful engines that are exactly the same make and type? More to the point, I suppose, would they think it's worth it?

Highlights also how little slack there is within the air transport fleets

SW1 wrote:Highlights also how little slack there is within the air transport fleets

Also highlights some excellent photography, thanks for posting.

SW1 wrote:Highlights also how little slack there is within the air transport fleets

Those vehicles look brand new.

They have had a makeover prior to being sent so have that factory fresh look and even complimentary air fresheners inside.

For that new AFV smell!

Ron5 wrote:For that new AFV smell!

Fresh Desert Camo paint for Europe?

SW1 wrote: Highlights also how little slack there is within the air transport fleets

Does it? Seems like a good exercise in using contract An124 which has twice the payload of a C17. Perhaps if we had C5 it would make sense...

OT but perhaps Nato should invest in a few of these to add the the Hungary based C17 wing

RunningStrong wrote:

SW1 wrote: Highlights also how little slack there is within the air transport fleets

Does it? Seems like a good exercise in using contract An124 which has twice the payload of a C17. Perhaps if we had C5 it would make sense...

There was a C-130 and A400 as well as the An 124 taking part

British military tests out eco-friendly vehicles

Hybrid electric technology is being tested in British military armoured vehicles to make them stealthier on the battlefield and more environmentally friendly.

The Foxhound, a wheeled patrol vehicle that carries personnel, and the Jackal 2, a high-mobility reconnaissance vehicle that also transports troops, are being tested with the new systems.

Prototype hybrid models based on each fleet, funded by a £3 million investment from the Ministry of Defence, are to be demonstrated at a military exhibition in November.

The aim is for the two upgraded army vehicles to have better mobility and reduce engine noise to boost their stealth capability.

Read More: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brit ... -hxpxkl0lq (paywalled)

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Hybrid electric technology

Read more here

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... ealth.html

Telegraph ..

Army testing hybrid technology on two types of armoured vehicles

Foxhound and Jackal 2 will see gearboxs and drivetrains replaced with generators and electronics paired with the retained diesel engines
By Danielle Sheridan, Political Correspondent 20 August 2020 • 6:00am

Hybrid armoured 4x4s are to be tested by the British Army for the first time in a bid to make war 'environmentally friendly’.

The new energy efficient technology is being tested on the Army’s Foxhound, part of the Protected Patrol Fleet which offers protection from mine and ballistic threats, and the Jackal 2, a reconnaissance vehicle which is designed to protect personnel against roadside explosions and mine attacks.

As part of a £3 million investment from the MoD, the first phase of testing will see the vehicles retain the diesel-driven internal combustion engine but replace the gearbox and drivetrain with generators, batteries and electronics paired with the engines in order to operate as hybrid.

As a result, the hybrid and electric drive systems will provide sustainability benefits; a major part of the department’s strategy to reduce its contributions to carbon and greenhouse gas emissions by adopting greener technology into its equipment fleet.

Lieutenant-General Richard Nugee, who is leading the department’s ongoing Climate Change and Sustainability Review, applauded the Army’s efforts to be greener.

“It is great to see the Army testing electric vehicles that will benefit not only our world-class personnel, but also our planet,” he said. A Jackal 2 is pictured below:

“This goes to show how seriously we are incorporating sustainability into our operations, while simultaneously pushing the boundaries of military innovation.”

The potential military advantages of hybrid electric-drive vehicles include reducing noise and increasing stealth capability, while electric systems will also provide power off-board.

A Government source told the Telegraph that the fact the hybrid technology enables the vehicles to remain quiet was a “tactical” benefit.

“We are serious about environmental challenges as that drives a lot of conflict,” they said.

“We want to play our part in a sustainable world.”

They cited Mali, where the Jackal will be deployed along with the 250 British soldiers during their peacekeeping mission later this year, as an example where the environment is one of a range of factors that are behind the conflict due to “tensions between farmers and herdsmen”.

“The sahel is one of the most vulnerable regions to climate change and one of the things that drives conflict is access to land,” they said.

The MoD said alongside delivering multiple technical and operational enhancements, the introduction of hybrid technology would ultimately reduce the Army’s reliance on fossil fuels, a step towards the Government’s 2050 net zero goal.

The tests will be carried out under the Protected Mobility Engineering & Technical Support programme while the hybrid electric-drive system will be developed by NP Aerospace.

The Coventry-based company will work in collaboration with General Dynamics UK, Supacat and Magtec to create prototypes of the Foxhound and Jackal 2 vehicles to test the new technology.

Jeremy Quin, the Defence Minister, said: “These tests will ensure our Armed Forces have the latest, safest and most efficient technology, while continuing to support prosperity across the UK. They represent a potential opportunity to improve our vehicles sustainability and military effectiveness.”

The review will focus on setting the baseline for defence’s emissions and carbon footprint, and will publish the findings in December.

The environmental side is limited to say the least, unless you're planning to have a rather large battery for regenerative braking (which is no bad thing on a vehicle that heavy).

However, it also provides improved drive characteristics by improving the torque performance.

Not to mention you replace the gearbox with a larger alternator off the engine, and most likely use a single speed electric motor to each axle. Also likely to see a decrease in brake system wear and tear.

Okay, perhaps you'll see 5% improvement in fuel efficiency around town

I like this approach - test out the technology on an established platform and validate it in a realistic operating environment. I’d imagine the quiet battery only crawl mode could be very useful. Also the vehicle now becomes a giant charging point for all the electronic kit soldiers seem to lug around. Unclear whether there’s any direct connection from ICU to axle or is it a pure generator a la type 45 IEP

I think the stealth aspect is a bit overplayed, but perhaps at low speed a relatively small battery (2-3kWh) would allow you creep the last mile if needed.

A normal car does 2.5-4 miles per kWh at road speeds. And EV batteries are generally 40kWh plus.