Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

[Lord Jim]

how many aircraft were powered by a RR Merlin..

Less than half that were in front line service

[SD67]

how many aircraft were powered by a RR Merlin..

Less than half that were in front line service

Lancaster, Wellington, Mosquito, Spitfire, Hurricane - that's pretty good standardisation. We used to be better at this

[ArmChairCivvy]

Lancaster, Wellington, Mosquito, Spitfire, Hurricane

Mustang was very lackluster until the swap over to Merlin was done
... we know the rest

[Caribbean]

Lancaster, Wellington, Mosquito, Spitfire, Hurricane

Plus the Halifax, Beaufighter, Bolton Paul Defiant

[Lord Jim]

Most Halifax and Beaufighters used Bristol Engines and planes like the Typhoon, Tempest used alternative Rolls Royce engines or again those from Bristol. Yes given the number of types of aircraft we operated the Merlin was installed on 1000s of them and it was a damn good engine until replaced eventually by the Griffon.

I believe nowadays though many engines installed in AFVs are supported directly by the manufacturer with only basic maintenance and/or replacement carried out by units. Therefore the amount of spares that are needed as well as the quantities are less, and are mainly consumables. The effects of standardisation are less then would have been in the past therefore.

[ArmChairCivvy]

The effects of standardisation are less then would have been in the past therefore.

... until you field units for longer than on an exercise

[Lord Jim]

We have always never had enough spares held at depot for all three Services. Contractor support has in many cases led to these being held by the Contractor rather than the MoD, though they are rapidly transferred in order to support forces in the field. Like so many things though this affects the speed of work the Contractor can carry out at the Deep level, but as always it is a balancing act.

Nowadays almost all AFVs down to 4x4 are designed to have their Powertrains for example a Field Replaceable Units (FRUs), and units have integral REME units to carry out this work. Yes in combat conditions it will probably be necessary to carry out impromptu repairs but units have never carried around a full set of spares in the field. So having forward deployed REME units with a supply of spares and FRUs able to take vehicles brought in by that units recovery platforms and fix them up and send them back out will be important. These units would need be decentralised, include integral security details and also be mobile with other units able to locate the nearest via GPS etc..

[ArmChairCivvy]

While you outline how more modularisation has made field repairs more straight-forward, quicker and less manpower intensive, spares

in many cases [led to these] being held by the Contractor rather than the MoD, though they are rapidly transferred in order to support forces in the field.

is a more systemic problem:
- with spares we sent contractors to the Gulf and to Camp Bastion
- in a fast tempo conflict, with not much warning, that will not be doable

[SD67]

Whether it is supported in house or by the contractor it will still be easier dealing with one or two power train suppliers than 5 or 6 - you sign long term strategic partnerships and drive down the price. Also benefit from fleet wide upgrades.

[ArmChairCivvy]

one or two power train suppliers

Renk + MTU?

[Ron5]

Whether it is supported in house or by the contractor it will still be easier dealing with one or two power train suppliers than 5 or 6 - you sign long term strategic partnerships and drive down the price. Also benefit from fleet wide upgrades.

How exactly does that "drive the price down" work?

[SD67]

Economies of scale and simplification in the supply chain, resulting in lower cost, passed on to the customer. I’m mean it works like that in every other industry in the world.

A few years back when the army was much bigger than it is now we had Perkins Condor powering Challenger and Warrior (V8 and V12 forms), plus all the CVRTs moved by Cummins B series. That was basically it.

Now we’ve got the above two plus CAT, MTU, Steyr Monobloc (foxhound), International (Husky), IVECO (panther), soon to be - GM (JLTV). I’m sure there are more. They’ll all have their own quirks. Each firm will have its own way of doing business and providing support. This is where cost comes from.

[SD67]

I’d go MTU/Renk for everything over 30t, and Cummins everything under.

The B series is available in a 4cylinder version down to 3.3 litres which can fit in a light duty pickup or land rover. At the other end the 6.7 6 cyl could power the heaviest MVRP. And they’re UK made.

The whole army could be literally be in two engine architectures

[ArmChairCivvy]

over 30t, and Cummins everything under.

For my use, under 30t by a wide margin, a 5.7 ltr will do v nicely, thank you.

[Ron5]

Economies of scale and simplification in the supply chain, resulting in lower cost, passed on to the customer. I’m mean it works like that in every other industry in the world.

A few years back when the army was much bigger than it is now we had Perkins Condor powering Challenger and Warrior (V8 and V12 forms), plus all the CVRTs moved by Cummins B series. That was basically it.

Now we’ve got the above two plus CAT, MTU, Steyr Monobloc (foxhound), International (Husky), IVECO (panther), soon to be - GM (JLTV). I’m sure there are more. They’ll all have their own quirks. Each firm will have its own way of doing business and providing support. This is where cost comes from.

When the customer doesn't have another choice any cost savings tend to stay in the manufacturers pocket. Free market 101.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Free market 101.

Hence we need a national (military) fitting out yard, regardless who builds the blocks (then assembled) or the hulls - all with propulsion and 'basic' navigation, and may be other modules as per SJP, put in place first.
- will now, after the rant , move over to the appropriate navy/ defence industry thread

[Lord Jim]

Yes having a MoD maintenance, refit and assembly centre with personnel form Rheinmetall, GM and LM for example working together with MoD civilians and service personnel. Its aim would be to cover all military vehicles in UK service.

[mr.fred]

If only there was somewhere like that in Bovington and somewhere like Telford...

[Lord Jim]

.....with the proper investment and capacity.

[mr.fred]

.....with the proper investment and capacity.

Oh, industry will do that, and if they don’t we’ll punish them for it. I imagine that they’ll be rushing to invest!

[Ron5]

[Lord Jim]

Impressive video of an impressive piece of kit. It looks like it could do a number of the jobs currently earmarked for the Boxer. How about we use the Boxer in an IFV form to equip six Mechanised Battalion for the two Heavy/Medium Brigades together with the Challenger 3s and have two Motorised Brigades each of four Battalions equipped with the Eagle 6x6 and 4x4. Get rid of Ajax and Warrior all together, except maybe two Regiments of the former for Divisional level screening duties.

[RunningStrong]

Denmark contracts Eagle, patrol vehicles and an open reconnaissance prototype.

https://www.gdels.com/pr.php?news=149

[ArmChairCivvy]

Would 'patrol' have the same meaning as our 'light protected mobility'?
- that recce proto (in 1 exemplar) surely corresponds to our light-recce' roled units and what they are equipped with

[Luke jones]

Denmark contracts Eagle, patrol vehicles and an open reconnaissance prototype.

https://www.gdels.com/pr.php?news=149

How much do these vehicles cost per copy?