Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

[SW1]

Which the RG-35 or Newcastle

The RG-35

[Tempest414]

From what I can make out they allowed Nimr to build it under licence

edit however if they did sell it then they have the ability to design a new vehicle based on the work of RG-35

[ArmChairCivvy]

When AMV became the choice for Badger, BAE lost interest and:
"OMC then became part of BAE Systems' Land Systems, again undergoing a name change to Land Systems OMC. In April 2015, it was announced the company has sold its 75% stake in LSSA, for a total of approximately 855 million Rand ($53 million), to the state-owned group Denel."

So the company was sold. I don't see RG-35 in the line up, but RG-34 is still going strong.

Where the company now in business alongside with Denel, Paramount, sprung up from would be interesting to know (but that does not fall under this thread).

[Jake1992]

However you can buy almost 3 JTVL for every 1 Foxhound

It depends how you look at it the initial price for Foxhound at £900k odd was on a relieve small order of 380 odd in an urgent order. This wouldn’t be the price for a 2500 odd order set over a reasonable time frame, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the unit cost drop to around £650k, we then also should take in to tax retaken from this order that wouldn’t be from JLTV ( or at least HMG should ) that would further bring down the true unit cost to closer to £450k

Last I saw JLTV unit cost had pretty much doubled to near $500k or roughly £380k while still cheaper than Foxhound the added benefit to job creation in the UK is lost which in these times should always be considered in governmental percurments.

But by the by my original comment was more a my personal thoughts around the looks of both lol

[Caribbean]

So the company was sold. I don't see RG-35 in the line up, but RG-34 is still going strong

From what I can make out they allowed Nimr to build it under licence

It's still on the Nimr website as the Jais 6x6 and 4x4

[ArmChairCivvy]

From what I can make out they allowed Nimr to build it under licence

Yeah, still part of that line-up.

But closer to the topic: Bushmaster is often mentioned, but the actual infantry version only carries 7 dismounts
- would that not be a show stopper?
- there is a 10 pax force protection version; make what you want from the difference (same outside dimensions, but no Bergens, nothing bigger than self-protection weapons etc?)

[SW1]

[SD67]

What’s the expected service life of a JLTV? Total cost of ownership per year of service is the metric, not sticker price.

The US army business model seems to be buy in bulk, use for 15-20 years, then sell it on and buy another one. It keeps the production line open and congressional supporters happy, and there’s a big market for second hand us army equipment - State National Guards, even police departments. But that’s not our model.

[Lord Jim]

No it is not, but I think the idea is to tag our order onto those of the US Military to keep the price down, though we will also have to pay for the support side of things, whether via an industrial partnership or less likely an in house solution. It is interesting how quiet thing have gotten with the MRV(P) programme though. I know leaving Afghanistan will have reduced its priority but the establishment of the new Ranger Regiment and the Light BCTs should have also increased it. Considering when the JLTV was stated as being the preferred option etc. it should be entering service by now.

[SD67]

Hummvee has been in continuous production since 1984. 280,000 have been built, 140,000 currently in service. So about half of Humvees production must have been replacing earlier Humvees.

[Tempest414]

For me now we should be looking to Australia and Hawkei plus a new 6x6 Bushmaster 2 design with both built in the UK under licence maybe push for Canada to join in

[Ron5]

Hummvee has been in continuous production since 1984. 280,000 have been built, 140,000 currently in service. So about half of Humvees production must have been replacing earlier Humvees.

Terrible logic.

[Ron5]

For me now we should be looking to Australia and Hawkei plus a new 6x6 Bushmaster 2 design with both built in the UK under licence maybe push for Canada to join in

Hawkei is worse than JLTV and a lot more expensive.

The UK has ample companies and automotive experience to build a 100% British solution to both requirements. Just the political backbone to do so is missing. Any half way decent result would sell a bunch overseas. Not everyone wants to buy American.

[RunningStrong]

For me now we should be looking to Australia and Hawkei plus a new 6x6 Bushmaster 2 design with both built in the UK under licence maybe push for Canada to join in

MRV-P is supposed to be low risk, why burn money on developing a 6x6 Bushmaster when a 6x6 Eagle already exists?

[SW1]

If low risk 6x6 is what is required would increasing the number of mastiff with modifications done for Mali be a better route

[Ron5]

For me now we should be looking to Australia and Hawkei plus a new 6x6 Bushmaster 2 design with both built in the UK under licence maybe push for Canada to join in

MRV-P is supposed to be low risk, why burn money on developing a 6x6 Bushmaster when a 6x6 Eagle already exists?

Eagle is from the same company that has so conspicuously failed to deliver Ajax. Rewarding failure is never a good idea.

[Ron5]

If low risk 6x6 is what is required would increasing the number of mastiff with modifications done for Mali be a better route

Nothing wrong with risk. You have to, to get ahead of the game.

The trick is to keep risk where it could pay off, not risk shit just for the hell of it. Like giving a totally inexperienced vendor a multi-billion pound production contract. What have you achieved if it pays off ? - nothing. What if you lose? - billions down the drain.

[RunningStrong]

For me now we should be looking to Australia and Hawkei plus a new 6x6 Bushmaster 2 design with both built in the UK under licence maybe push for Canada to join in

MRV-P is supposed to be low risk, why burn money on developing a 6x6 Bushmaster when a 6x6 Eagle already exists?

Eagle is from the same company that has so conspicuously failed to deliver Ajax. Rewarding failure is never a good idea.

Isn't that why MOD didn't choose your favoured and "proven" CV90?

So which lesson are we forgetting?

[RunningStrong]

If low risk 6x6 is what is required would increasing the number of mastiff with modifications done for Mali be a better route

I certainly think Mastiff has a future in such scenarios, but it doesn't address the wider requirements for a vehicle with the manoeuvrability, survivability and variants of the MRV-P requirements for a near-peer conflict.

[tomuk]

Not really bothered what we buy but it must at least be assembled under license in the uk and ideally be powered by a uk sourced diesel Cummins/Perkins/JCB.

[Ron5]

For me now we should be looking to Australia and Hawkei plus a new 6x6 Bushmaster 2 design with both built in the UK under licence maybe push for Canada to join in

MRV-P is supposed to be low risk, why burn money on developing a 6x6 Bushmaster when a 6x6 Eagle already exists?

Eagle is from the same company that has so conspicuously failed to deliver Ajax. Rewarding failure is never a good idea.

Isn't that why MOD didn't choose your favoured and "proven" CV90?

So which lesson are we forgetting?

You have a superficial point because Bae do have a mixed record on systems delivery. Great successes and occasional failures by the parent company.

However Bae Hagglunds, who are responsible for CV90, have a rather good reputation for delivery. On the other hand, GD UK to date have two very expensive failures to their name and zero successes.

PS it was really the Army that didn't want Bae. There were some in MoD's procurement that argued vehemently against GD UK getting the contract. Unfortunately there was a rubbish head of procurement and a rubbish minister at the time so they were overruled.

[RunningStrong]

However Bae Hagglunds, who are responsible for CV90, have a rather good reputation for delivery. On the other hand, GD UK to date have two very expensive failures to their name and zero successes.

Bowman and Foxhound failures? What have Haaglunds got to their reputation?

PS it was really the Army that didn't want Bae. There were some in MoD's procurement that argued vehemently against GD UK getting the contract. Unfortunately there was a rubbish head of procurement and a rubbish minister at the time so they were overruled.

It's besides the point of why they weren't chosen, the reality is that they had a very high profile failure in Nimrod, which by your reasoning should not have been "rewarded" with a further contract for CV90.

[Tempest414]

I have no problem with Eagle 6x6 so to say and the 4x4 has worked well in service with Germany plus the Swiss have ordered the 6x6.

Plus if a Bushmaster 6x6 is to much then just go with the Bushmaster MR6 for me the UK needs to be building a new alliance like CANZUK so it is not left out in the cold and with Australia going for type 26 we should be looking to build a partnership and 1200 Hawkei and 800 Bushmaster would be the right number for 2 x light BCT's plus the RAF Regiment with a few left for the new Ranger units

[Tempest414]

I can't get head around why we are selling off Husky surly we should be looking at having light BCT's with a mix of Jackal , Husky & Foxhound with

Jackal = Recce
Foxhound = troop movement
Husky = tactical support , Mortar carrier & 105mm gun limber

[SW1]

But there is so many options that could be developed here in uk, the enclosed cabs on HMT series, more foxhound if GD aren’t put on the naughty step. You might have one light BCT on wheels the other on something like bsv10 and there assigned different geographic areas in the world to engage with long term.