Enlighted us please, what did HMT (specifically) do to T23s?Ron5 wrote:What i actually said:J. Tattersall wrote:Really can you give us a specific example of what HMT did?Ron5 wrote:On recent government (Treasury) historyType 23's.On recent government (Treasury) history, most likely will be lifex after lifex until they can't float anymore.
Really not liking your selective quoting.
Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Ron5 wrote:What i actually said:J. Tattersall wrote:Really can you give us a specific example of what HMT did?Ron5 wrote:On recent government (Treasury) historyType 23's.The National Shipbuilding Strategy says no major upgrades. Sell them off cheap and build replacements. Of course the author is ex-Babcocks chief so he might be a tad biassed .
On recent government (Treasury) history, most likely will be lifex after lifex until they can't float anymore.
Really not liking your selective quoting. Stop doing that. Put comments in their complete context.
The treasury delayed signing off on the T26 contract meaning the T23's would have to stay in service longer and would therefore require expensive lifex's.J. Tattersall wrote:Enlighted us please, what did HMT (specifically) do to T23s?
Consider yourself educated.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Now that's not my recollection, can you prove it (primary source) please?Ron5 wrote:The treasury delayed signing off on the T26 contract meaning the T23's would have to stay in service longer and would therefore require expensive lifex's.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Wasn't this partially due to the fact that the Navy wanted thirteen, but the Treasury was unwilling to sign off on such a large amount as it would mean extra new money when the aim at the time was to at most keep thing at the same level of expenditure. After considerable haggling we ended up with only eight T-26s being signed off on by the Treasury and a new class of five cheaper "Escorts" to make up the number, the T-31.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Please share with us your recollections. A great opportunity for you to set the record straight after so many stories pointing the finger at the Treasury. An insiders scoop so to speak.J. Tattersall wrote:Now that's not my recollection, can you prove it (primary source) please?Ron5 wrote:The treasury delayed signing off on the T26 contract meaning the T23's would have to stay in service longer and would therefore require expensive lifex's.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Possible type 31 sale?
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... lish-navy/
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... lish-navy/
Babcock Shortlisted To Build Three Frigates For The Polish Navy
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Quess it all comes down to how fed up with the EU the polish government is cos the t31 is definitely a contender on price with the other 2 choices
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Looks like a retouch and skew of this:Ron5 wrote:Have we seen this picture before?
There's the same waves between the first two ships in the older image.
I'm convinced that those of us still hoping for 24 CAMM at delivery will likely be disappointed!
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
I would rather hope for 32, but accept no less than 24.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
I would rather accept 12, but with 4 ASMs instead of 12 additional CAMMs and torpedo launchers instead of additional 8.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
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OnlineTempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
But first the RN would need a SSGW to fit to any of its escorts
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Agreed. So my proposal is to cut the number of CAMMs to fund that. 12 Sea Ceptors should cost just about like 4 NSMs...Tempest414 wrote:But first the RN would need a SSGW to fit to any of its escorts
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
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OnlineTempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5548
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
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- Senior Member
- Posts: 5545
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
I prefer "24 CAMM + Wildcat with SeaVenom", than "12 CAMM + 8 ISSGW + Wildcat with SeaVenom".
I think, at least for Persian Gulf operations, defensive equipment in gray-zone war is more important than a "punch" to sink a larger vessel. In Persian gulf, "punch" for larger vessel can be provided by air-cover.
For other tasks, other opinion may come about. But, I also think LSG will NOT operate alone (=without further support) against mid-class nation having a frigate-class, or even corvette-class ships. Too risky. For operation against smaller nations, "Wildcat with SeaVenom and/or LMM" might be the main weapon here, as well.
Of course, having I-SSGW onboard ALL escort has a good rationale. I'm just saying, 24 CAMM will be better than 12 CAMM + 8 ISSGW. Just a personal opinion.
And...
Anyway, it is just "12 CAMM + Wildcat with SeaVenom", as of now...
I think, at least for Persian Gulf operations, defensive equipment in gray-zone war is more important than a "punch" to sink a larger vessel. In Persian gulf, "punch" for larger vessel can be provided by air-cover.
For other tasks, other opinion may come about. But, I also think LSG will NOT operate alone (=without further support) against mid-class nation having a frigate-class, or even corvette-class ships. Too risky. For operation against smaller nations, "Wildcat with SeaVenom and/or LMM" might be the main weapon here, as well.
Of course, having I-SSGW onboard ALL escort has a good rationale. I'm just saying, 24 CAMM will be better than 12 CAMM + 8 ISSGW. Just a personal opinion.
And...
Anyway, it is just "12 CAMM + Wildcat with SeaVenom", as of now...
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Good eye Jensy. Higher resolution is nice tho.Jensy wrote:There's the same waves between the first two ships in the older image.
12 CAMM and just EO directors for the guns
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Has Type 31 been mentioned as an LSG escort? I thought that was going to be the T32.donald_of_tokyo wrote:I also think LSG will NOT operate alone
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Don't hold your breath ..Tempest414 wrote:But first the RN would need a SSGW to fit to any of its escorts
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/nava ... news_promo
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
From Rons link above.
We are never getting that intern solution are weWe continue to scope options
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Not specifically, while T31 is named as "escort".Ron5 wrote:Has Type 31 been mentioned as an LSG escort? I thought that was going to be the T32.donald_of_tokyo wrote:I also think LSG will NOT operate alone
But, LSG will come within 3 years. T32 is nearly a decade away (or even more far away). T23ASW/T26 is for CVTF and TAPS.
As such, a ship to escort LSG is only T23GP = T31 in near future. (or River B2, in some cases).
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
I was just perusing some of the details relating to the radar supposedly selected for the T31 (as you do) and I was struck by a feature that I hadn't previously noted, which may shed some light on the conditions that the ship expects to see. According to the Thales brochure, the NS100 comes with an integrated Scout Mk3 radar (as well as automated IFF).
The Scout Mk3 is a short-range (out to 24NM), x-band radar designed to pick out very small surface and low-level air targets in very high-clutter environments - which sounds, to me, ideally-suited to drone detection. It's a 2D radar, but presumably it can cue either EO systems or main radar onto the threat (and approximate height can be determined by 2D radars - I can post a link for those with the maths to follow it, unlike me!)
Scout Mk 3 brochure: https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/defau ... k3-V04.pdf
It's also a genuine LPI radar - it uses the Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW) technique (instead of a single-frequency "ping", it sends a "chirp", where the frequency rises from low to high), allowing much lower power output (in this case < 3 watts), rather than the multiple kilowatts of conventional radars. Useful if you want to lurk, without completely dropping your sensor coverage
Explanation of how FMCW works here: https://demonstrations.wolfram.com/Freq ... FMCWRadar/
Apologies to those (sharper-eyed) folks who already spotted this!
Edited a couple of typos
The Scout Mk3 is a short-range (out to 24NM), x-band radar designed to pick out very small surface and low-level air targets in very high-clutter environments - which sounds, to me, ideally-suited to drone detection. It's a 2D radar, but presumably it can cue either EO systems or main radar onto the threat (and approximate height can be determined by 2D radars - I can post a link for those with the maths to follow it, unlike me!)
Scout Mk 3 brochure: https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/defau ... k3-V04.pdf
It's also a genuine LPI radar - it uses the Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW) technique (instead of a single-frequency "ping", it sends a "chirp", where the frequency rises from low to high), allowing much lower power output (in this case < 3 watts), rather than the multiple kilowatts of conventional radars. Useful if you want to lurk, without completely dropping your sensor coverage
Explanation of how FMCW works here: https://demonstrations.wolfram.com/Freq ... FMCWRadar/
Apologies to those (sharper-eyed) folks who already spotted this!
Edited a couple of typos
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Nice picture from @HistoricFirearm
Nobody get too excited by the weapon spec!
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Not a fan of the T31. Just looking at one gives me feelings of bodged compromise and cheapness.
And a crap class name too. Not Inspirational at all. Should be renamed Happy Shopper class.
Bleh.
And a crap class name too. Not Inspirational at all. Should be renamed Happy Shopper class.
Bleh.