Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
52
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
14
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
127
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
22
4%
A modernised Type 23
24
5%
A Type 26-lite
71
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
4%
5 hulls
71
14%
More than 5 hulls
103
20%
 
Total votes: 506

J. Tattersall

Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by J. Tattersall »

Ron5 wrote:
J. Tattersall wrote:
Ron5 wrote:On recent government (Treasury) history
Really can you give us a specific example of what HMT did?
What i actually said:
On recent government (Treasury) history, most likely will be lifex after lifex until they can't float anymore.
Type 23's.

Really not liking your selective quoting.
Enlighted us please, what did HMT (specifically) do to T23s?

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Ron5 wrote:
J. Tattersall wrote:
Ron5 wrote:On recent government (Treasury) history
Really can you give us a specific example of what HMT did?
What i actually said:
The National Shipbuilding Strategy says no major upgrades. Sell them off cheap and build replacements. Of course the author is ex-Babcocks chief so he might be a tad biassed .

On recent government (Treasury) history, most likely will be lifex after lifex until they can't float anymore.
Type 23's.

Really not liking your selective quoting. Stop doing that. Put comments in their complete context.
J. Tattersall wrote:Enlighted us please, what did HMT (specifically) do to T23s?
The treasury delayed signing off on the T26 contract meaning the T23's would have to stay in service longer and would therefore require expensive lifex's.

Consider yourself educated.

J. Tattersall

Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by J. Tattersall »

Ron5 wrote:The treasury delayed signing off on the T26 contract meaning the T23's would have to stay in service longer and would therefore require expensive lifex's.
Now that's not my recollection, can you prove it (primary source) please?

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

Wasn't this partially due to the fact that the Navy wanted thirteen, but the Treasury was unwilling to sign off on such a large amount as it would mean extra new money when the aim at the time was to at most keep thing at the same level of expenditure. After considerable haggling we ended up with only eight T-26s being signed off on by the Treasury and a new class of five cheaper "Escorts" to make up the number, the T-31.

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

J. Tattersall wrote:
Ron5 wrote:The treasury delayed signing off on the T26 contract meaning the T23's would have to stay in service longer and would therefore require expensive lifex's.
Now that's not my recollection, can you prove it (primary source) please?
Please share with us your recollections. A great opportunity for you to set the record straight after so many stories pointing the finger at the Treasury. An insiders scoop so to speak.

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

Possible type 31 sale?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... lish-navy/
Babcock Shortlisted To Build Three Frigates For The Polish Navy

inch
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Quess it all comes down to how fed up with the EU the polish government is cos the t31 is definitely a contender on price with the other 2 choices

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Have we seen this picture before?

Image

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Ron5 wrote:Have we seen this picture before?

Image
Looks like a retouch and skew of this:

Image

There's the same waves between the first two ships in the older image.

I'm convinced that those of us still hoping for 24 CAMM at delivery will likely be disappointed!

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

I would rather hope for 32, but accept no less than 24. :mrgreen:

abc123
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by abc123 »

I would rather accept 12, but with 4 ASMs instead of 12 additional CAMMs and torpedo launchers instead of additional 8.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

But first the RN would need a SSGW to fit to any of its escorts

abc123
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by abc123 »

Tempest414 wrote:But first the RN would need a SSGW to fit to any of its escorts
Agreed. So my proposal is to cut the number of CAMMs to fund that. 12 Sea Ceptors should cost just about like 4 NSMs...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

For me the problem is will not money

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

I prefer "24 CAMM + Wildcat with SeaVenom", than "12 CAMM + 8 ISSGW + Wildcat with SeaVenom".

I think, at least for Persian Gulf operations, defensive equipment in gray-zone war is more important than a "punch" to sink a larger vessel. In Persian gulf, "punch" for larger vessel can be provided by air-cover.

For other tasks, other opinion may come about. But, I also think LSG will NOT operate alone (=without further support) against mid-class nation having a frigate-class, or even corvette-class ships. Too risky. For operation against smaller nations, "Wildcat with SeaVenom and/or LMM" might be the main weapon here, as well.

Of course, having I-SSGW onboard ALL escort has a good rationale. I'm just saying, 24 CAMM will be better than 12 CAMM + 8 ISSGW. Just a personal opinion.

And...

Anyway, it is just "12 CAMM + Wildcat with SeaVenom", as of now...

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Jensy wrote:There's the same waves between the first two ships in the older image.
Good eye Jensy. Higher resolution is nice tho.

12 CAMM and just EO directors for the guns :thumbdown:

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote:I also think LSG will NOT operate alone
Has Type 31 been mentioned as an LSG escort? I thought that was going to be the T32.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Tempest414 wrote:But first the RN would need a SSGW to fit to any of its escorts
Don't hold your breath ..

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/nava ... news_promo

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

From Rons link above.
We continue to scope options
We are never getting that intern solution are we :(

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Ron5 wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:I also think LSG will NOT operate alone
Has Type 31 been mentioned as an LSG escort? I thought that was going to be the T32.
Not specifically, while T31 is named as "escort".

But, LSG will come within 3 years. T32 is nearly a decade away (or even more far away). T23ASW/T26 is for CVTF and TAPS.

As such, a ship to escort LSG is only T23GP = T31 in near future. (or River B2, in some cases).

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Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

I was just perusing some of the details relating to the radar supposedly selected for the T31 (as you do) and I was struck by a feature that I hadn't previously noted, which may shed some light on the conditions that the ship expects to see. According to the Thales brochure, the NS100 comes with an integrated Scout Mk3 radar (as well as automated IFF).

The Scout Mk3 is a short-range (out to 24NM), x-band radar designed to pick out very small surface and low-level air targets in very high-clutter environments - which sounds, to me, ideally-suited to drone detection. It's a 2D radar, but presumably it can cue either EO systems or main radar onto the threat (and approximate height can be determined by 2D radars - I can post a link for those with the maths to follow it, unlike me!)

Scout Mk 3 brochure: https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/defau ... k3-V04.pdf

It's also a genuine LPI radar - it uses the Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW) technique (instead of a single-frequency "ping", it sends a "chirp", where the frequency rises from low to high), allowing much lower power output (in this case < 3 watts), rather than the multiple kilowatts of conventional radars. Useful if you want to lurk, without completely dropping your sensor coverage

Explanation of how FMCW works here: https://demonstrations.wolfram.com/Freq ... FMCWRadar/

Apologies to those (sharper-eyed) folks who already spotted this!

Edited a couple of typos
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jonas
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

Consolite wins lighting contract :-

https://www.navaltoday.com/2021/09/14/c ... -frigates/

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Supposed to be cutting steel on the 21st!

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Image

Nice picture from @HistoricFirearm

Nobody get too excited by the weapon spec!

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SKB
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SKB »

Not a fan of the T31. Just looking at one gives me feelings of bodged compromise and cheapness.
And a crap class name too. Not Inspirational at all. Should be renamed Happy Shopper class.
Image
Bleh.

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