Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
52
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
14
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
127
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
22
4%
A modernised Type 23
24
5%
A Type 26-lite
71
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
4%
5 hulls
71
14%
More than 5 hulls
103
20%
 
Total votes: 506

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

silabario wrote:south america is also an option to export the T31 frigate. Chile, Colombia, Peru and Brazil needs frigates to replace.
Among them, Brazil builds by their own. Tamandare-class light frigate is well armed good ship. Not much hope.

Chile will try to build it by themselves. Babcock was building Vard7 OPV and then moved to Arrowhead 140. Chile builds their OPV by their own, so they will surely try local build of Arrowhead 140, as much as Babcock did. Not much hope.

Colombia frigate bid was there a few years ago, Venator 110 was bidding. Anybody know how it concluded?

Peru has some chance, but not sure. Fincantieri will be strong there, but there might be a chance.

All my personal guess, but the fact that "Babcock was building Vard7 OPV and then moved to Arrowhead 140" means many of the mid-class nations shall/will/must try local build, following Babcock.

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

Many nations who in the past would have purchase ships built overseas now aspire to build their own moving forward. Therefore with the Arrowhead 140 , Babcock is likely to earn money from the design and consultation, licencing, engineering support and provision of sub systems.

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

donald_of_tokyo wrote:All my personal guess, but the fact that "Babcock was building Vard7 OPV and then moved to Arrowhead 140" means many of the mid-class nations shall/will/must try local build, following Babcock.
Babcock needs to concentrate on the T31's followed by the T32's in Rosyth anyway.

By all means hoover up the global orders and increase the construction and maintenance facilities abroad but Rosyth needs to focus on delivering the T31's and T32's on time and on budget for RN IMO.

If the T31 programme is judged a success then many international orders are likely to follow, especially if the T32 is an improved designed at a competitive price. Conversely, if the T31 programme suffers from spiralling budgets and slipping schedules interest from abroad will dissipate rapidly.

Time for the talking to stop and Frigates need to start hitting the water asap. Delivering 5 T31's on time and on budget should be Babcocks primary focus above all else in its shipbuilding division.

jonas
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

Parliamentry written answers 21st Sept 2021

https://questions-statements.parliament ... 9-13/48153

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

I thought type 31 steel was to be cut on 9/21. Maybe I got the date wrong.

inch
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Just a quick one folks ,how many on here think sale prospects of type 31 to Greece are alot more diminished after aukus deal as France will pile pressure on Greece ?

BB85
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by BB85 »

How can France pile pressure onto Greece when Greece hold all the cards when making a decision. France will want to save face after losing the sub deal. I always felt T31 was really just being considered to bring the price down on the FTI Frigates. France will be under pressure to offer an even more competitive bid and probably finance for 30 years interest free :lol:

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

inch wrote:Just a quick one folks ,how many on here think sale prospects of type 31 to Greece are alot more diminished after aukus deal as France will pile pressure on Greece ?
Certainly

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

BB85 wrote:How can France pile pressure onto Greece when Greece hold all the cards when making a decision. France will want to save face after losing the sub deal. I always felt T31 was really just being considered to bring the price down on the FTI Frigates. France will be under pressure to offer an even more competitive bid and probably finance for 30 years interest free :lol:
By threatening to be difficult/veto/vote against a whole myriad of EU issues of relevance to Greece. For the same reason, although legally possible, it would have been practically impossible for the UK to have signed up to Aukus and the associated sub deal if it were still in the EU

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

What about EU “Solidarity” ?
Politicians should be careful about what it seems they wish for!
What France and Greece do may cause more deep unease among the other 25 “EU” Nations, giving further impetus to the possibly slow demise of that particular “Protection Racket”.
The T31 is offered as part of a package including enhancing Shipbuilding capacity in Greece. The Greeks are quite capable of deciding what is in their best (long term) interest. :idea:

Interest free credit over 30 years and giving up the French Permanent Membership of the UN Security Council ! The French may well decide that these are not matters that they wish for the current (and would be next) President to decide. :mrgreen:

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: Chile will try to build it by themselves. Babcock was building Vard7 OPV and then moved to Arrowhead 140. Chile builds their OPV by their own, so they will surely try local build of Arrowhead 140, as much as Babcock did. Not much hope.

Colombia frigate bid was there a few years ago, Venator 110 was bidding. Anybody know how it concluded?

Peru has some chance, but not sure. Fincantieri will be strong there, but there might be a chance.

All my personal guess, but the fact that "Babcock was building Vard7 OPV and then moved to Arrowhead 140" means many of the mid-class nations shall/will/must try local build, following Babcock.
I think Covid has changed the landscape significantly.

South America has suffered terribly, with many countries whose economic situation was already dire, now facing greater hardship.

The resources needed to establish domestic escort building might well be beyond those nations irrespective of their previous aspirations. They may either delay fututue procurement or look to more affordable acquisition models (used or OTS).

Also been a recent upsurge in tensions between Argentina and Chile over the Patagonian Peninsula and surrounding waters (likely connected to upcoming elections in the later).

This may well have added a sense of urgency that didn't exist previously. It has also probably killed off any chance of Argentina buying the OPV-80 design which Chile and Colombia have been building at a 'rather' leisurely pace (seven built across two countries and 15 years).

Chile has also recently acquired the last two Adelaide Class (OHP derivatives), rather than seeking domestic build to replace their ex-Dutch L Class frigates.

As you say, the Colombian Frigate requirement has gone very quiet. Once again, with Covid, I don't see any budgets suddenly freeing up in the near future to build eight of the largest and most capable ships they've operated since the 1980s.
Ron5 wrote:I thought type 31 steel was to be cut on 9/21. Maybe I got the date wrong.
Thought it was due in September (sorry lost in translation as to whether 9/21 = 'Sept 2021' or the 21st September 2021 :lol: ). Either way there's not much September left and presumably some VIP from Westminster will be jetting off to sunny Rosyth for the occasion!

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Jensy wrote:I think Covid has changed the landscape significantly.

South America has suffered terribly, with many countries whose economic situation was already dire, now facing greater hardship.

The resources needed to establish domestic escort building might well be beyond those nations irrespective of their previous aspirations. They may either delay fututue procurement or look to more affordable acquisition models (used or OTS).

Also been a recent upsurge in tensions between Argentina and Chile over the Patagonian Peninsula and surrounding waters (likely connected to upcoming elections in the later).

This may well have added a sense of urgency that didn't exist previously. It has also probably killed off any chance of Argentina buying the OPV-80 design which Chile and Colombia have been building at a 'rather' leisurely pace (seven built across two countries and 15 years).

Chile has also recently acquired the last two Adelaide Class (OHP derivatives), rather than seeking domestic build to replace their ex-Dutch L Class frigates.

As you say, the Colombian Frigate requirement has gone very quiet. Once again, with Covid, I don't see any budgets suddenly freeing up in the near future to build eight of the largest and most capable ships they've operated since the 1980s.
Then, T31 export is also getting more unlikely ... They will look for further used M-class frigates, or T23 (both of which Chile already has some). La Fayette class, Floreal-class, as well as Brandenburg-class (after F125), ANZAC class frigates will be available soon, as well?

silabario
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by silabario »

Jensy wrote: I think Covid has changed the landscape significantly.

South America has suffered terribly, with many countries whose economic situation was already dire, now facing greater hardship.

The resources needed to establish domestic escort building might well be beyond those nations irrespective of their previous aspirations. They may either delay fututue procurement or look to more affordable acquisition models (used or OTS).

Also been a recent upsurge in tensions between Argentina and Chile over the Patagonian Peninsula and surrounding waters (likely connected to upcoming elections in the later).

This may well have added a sense of urgency that didn't exist previously. It has also probably killed off any chance of Argentina buying the OPV-80 design which Chile and Colombia have been building at a 'rather' leisurely pace (seven built across two countries and 15 years).

Chile has also recently acquired the last two Adelaide Class (OHP derivatives), rather than seeking domestic build to replace their ex-Dutch L Class frigates.

As you say, the Colombian Frigate requirement has gone very quiet. Once again, with Covid, I don't see any budgets suddenly freeing up in the near future to build eight of the largest and most capable ships they've operated since the 1980s.
Ron5 wrote:I thought type 31 steel was to be cut on 9/21. Maybe I got the date wrong.
Thought it was due in September (sorry lost in translation as to whether 9/21 = 'Sept 2021' or the 21st September 2021 :lol: ). Either way there's not much September left and presumably some VIP from Westminster will be jetting off to sunny Rosyth for the occasion!
to many years since Argentina didn't buy the OPV80, instead they buy the french OPV. Colombia is another case, like the other countries but they will need vessels to protect themseves from the fishing fleets from China, yes in that case you need OPV's but you can not reject the oportunity to offer naval solutions like the t31. South Korea has no intention to reject naval solutions in the peruvian case, same think in Brasil where Germany could offer a meko solution.

Chile is another case, the chilean navy wants to build -starting in the year 2030- 8 new vessels to replace the actual fleet, is like the royal NAvy National Shipbiulding strategy, but in Chilean style.
https://www.infodefensa.com/latam/2021/ ... gatas.html

for Chile there is no option to buy again second hand warships due to the problem of the age of that future frigates, like the ANZAC, T23, M frigates and others, so the construction of new vessels is the only choice.


Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Yeah. On schedule!!!

Defiance
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Defiance »

Glad to hear it - good things going on for British shipbuilding.

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/firs ... -programme

First steel cut for Royal Navy Type 31 programme
Steel was today cut for HMS Venturer, the first vessel of the Royal Navy’s Type 31 frigates that will be at the centre of its surface fleet.


Defence Secretary Ben Wallace officially cut steel for the UK’s newest warship, during a ceremony held at Rosyth dockyard. The event marks a significant milestone in the programme for the Royal Navy, Defence and shipbuilding in Scotland, with all five vessels to be built by Babcock on the Firth of the Forth and an average production cost of £250 million per vessel.

Deemed the lead programme of the National Shipbuilding Strategy, the construction of the fleet will support around 1,250 highly-skilled jobs at Babcock and see the creation of an additional 150 apprenticeships. A further 1,250 roles in the UK supply chain are also expected to be supported by the programme.

Shipbuilding Tsar and Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

Today is a momentous occasion for the Type 31 programme, Defence and the shipbuilding industry in Scotland. As Shipbuilding Tsar, to cut the steel for the first of five new frigates that will be constructed here on our shores in the Firth of the Forth, providing jobs and innovation to the are, is a tremendous honour.

Equipped with the innovative technologies at the forefront of the Royal Navy’s future vision, the entire Type 31 fleet will be fitted with a range of capabilities allowing it to undertake a variety of operations at sea.

Scottish Secretary Alister Jack said:

It’s hugely exciting to see construction of the first of the British military’s new Type 31 warships beginning at Babcock’s Rosyth dockyard on the Firth of the Forth.

When complete HMS Venturer - and the rest of the five Scottish built fleet - will help protect the UK and our NATO allies and provide humanitarian support.

This £1.25billion investment, alongside the Type 26 programme by BAE Systems on the River Clyde at Govan, is boosting our country’s prosperity through supporting thousands of jobs and enhancing Scotland’s reputation as a world leader in shipbuilding.

The newest of the Royal Navy’s frigate fleet will undertake a variety of roles on operations including interception and disruption of illegal activity at sea, intelligence gathering, Defence engagement and providing humanitarian support.

The Type 31 will be equipped with innovative technology and will benefit from advanced capabilities fitted onboard, including MBDA’s Sea Ceptor, a supersonic anti-air missile defence system, as well as a 57mm and two 40mm Bofors naval guns, a 4D radar system and able to house a Royal Navy helicopter.

With agility and flexibility integral to its design, the Type 31 weapon systems will also be adapted throughout its lifespan to counter future threats and ensure each ship can be equipped to deliver a forward naval presence across the globe.

Known as the Inspiration class, the five Type 31 vessels all take their names from former warships and submarines whose missions and history are intended to inspire Royal Navy operations, as well as a representation of its future vision. The four remaining ships in the Class were recently announced as HMS Active, HMS Formidable, HMS Bulldog and HMS Campbeltown.

Constructed in 1942, the original HMS Venturer was a World War Two V-class submarine that most notably was the first to sink another submarine, a German U-boat, while both were submerged using its technological and intelligence advantage over the enemy. Almost 80 years later since construction started on the original HMS Venturer, its Type 31 depiction draws on its historical achievements and aims to promote the Royal Navy’s technological and innovative forward-look.

Minister for Defence Procurement, Jeremy Quin said:

Type 31, built at Rosyth and supporting over 2,000 jobs, is a hugely important future capability for the Royal Navy and represents a significant export opportunity to friends and allies overseas.

As announced by the Prime Minister last November, Defence has received an increase in funding of over £24 billion across the next four years, enabling our Armed Forces to adapt to meet future threats of which the Type 31 will form a part. Enhanced by commitments outlined in the Defence Command Paper, the new frigates will form part of the Royal Navy Integrated Force 2030 vision and will replace the five general-purpose Type-23 frigates currently in service with the Royal Navy.

During his visit to the Rosyth dockyard, the Defence Secretary, accompanied by the Minister for Defence Procurement Jeremy Quin and Director General Ships Vice Admiral Chris Gardner of Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S), also unveiled a plaque to mark the formal commissioning of Babcock’s new Assembly Hall. As part of a wider £35 million site investment by Babcock, the state-of-the-art and digitised facility will be capable of housing two Type 31 vessels alongside each other during their build phase.

Second Sea Lord, Vice Admiral Nick Hine said:

This is an exciting time for the Royal Navy. The Type 31 represents the very best of British shipbuilding and with its modular design will be configurable to meet the needs of both the Royal Navy and our allies around the world, now and into the future.

Type 31s will operate across the globe with sustained forward presence, further signifying our intent of being a global navy and the foremost naval power in Europe.

Director General Ships at Defence Equipment & Support, Vice Admiral Chris Gardner said:

I am incredibly proud of the Type 31 team at DE&S who worked tirelessly to deliver the contract award in timescales unprecedented for a procurement of its size and complexity.

The pace and agility of the team and their close working relationship with industry has meant that now, less than two years later, we have witnessed the start of production of a vessel that will play a pivotal role in the Royal Navy fleet and inspire a new UK shipbuilding renaissance through realising the goals of the national Shipbuilding Strategy.

The entire Type 31 fleet is expected to be delivered by the end of 2028 and to enter service with the Royal Navy by the end of 2030, with the first expected in the water in 2023. The Type 31 will carry a crew of up to 105 that will be deployed on duties around the world, working alongside new Type-26 frigates. Its design is based on Babcock’s Arrowhead 140 which has already attracted international export opportunities. Babcock signed the first export contract with PT Pal of Indonesia, at this year’s DSEI and is also one of the bidders down selected to provide a potential design solution for the Polish Navy’s Miecznik (Swordfish) frigate programme.

The Type 31 is the first warship competition for over a decade, with the initial contract award by DE&S marking a significant achievement of meeting the challenges outlined by Sir John Parker in the National Ship Building Strategy, announced in September 2017.

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

New graphic from the MoD too:

Image

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

And still nothing, from the text or graphic, to confirm the number of Sea Ceptor....

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

I hate reading speeches like those. So full of shit.

Type 31's bursting with leading edge technology that will make them the pivot point of the new Royal Navy. Gimme a frikkin break.

And the "Firth of the Forth"? WTF? I suppose the type 26's are being built on the "River of the Clyde".

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

dmereifield wrote:And still nothing, from the text or graphic, to confirm the number of Sea Ceptor....
No, no, no. I can definitely see 32 launchers. You're not looking (wishing) hard enough. :D

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

Ron5 wrote:Firth of the Forth"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firth_of_Forth

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

SW1 wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Firth of the Forth"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firth_of_Forth
No "the" dude. I expect the MoD's spellchecker added that.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SKB »



Note the lack of a Union Flag....^

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

The shed is finished!



Seen here below, 'Fife Bob', his lovely wife Roberta, oldest son Rob and young, wee Bobbie on the forklift.
(CGI from @NavyLookout):
Image
The image from the above infographic in much higher resolution (four RHIBs suggests the fourth boat bay might have been reinstated):
Image
Mild sarcasm follows:
Looking forward to the inevitable discovery that 160m isn't long enough for Type 32/83. ;)
Image

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