Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
52
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
14
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
127
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
22
4%
A modernised Type 23
24
5%
A Type 26-lite
71
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
4%
5 hulls
71
14%
More than 5 hulls
103
20%
 
Total votes: 506

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Supposed to be a fixed price "customer hands off" contract with no interference from the Navy.
:D :D

So, the DG Ships @DefenceES should be walking around (for half a decade ;) ) with a hood around his head - or, rather with race-horse type of blinkers, so that he could only see sail boats :lol:
- how long is the 'tour' btw?
Admiral: "Well what have you got to show me?"

Babcock's: "Here's our frigate factory"

Admiral: "That's a half built shed, what else ya got?"

Babcock's: "There's this nice model ..."

Admiral: "Lobster & steak for lunch?"

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ron5 wrote: Admiral: "Lobster & steak for lunch?"
Is that an Admiralty version of carpetbagger steak ?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

jimthelad
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jimthelad »

There's a Good pub just across the water!

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote: Admiral: "Lobster & steak for lunch?"
Is that an Admiralty version of carpetbagger steak ?
Never heard of that.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Me neither. I revert to my line that the Admiral is doing his allocated job - and is of good standing.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:the Admiral is doing his allocated job - and is of good standing
.... as long as both sides have done due diligence and made a formal written assessment of whether or not the provision of a free lunch constitutes an act of bribery, within the meaning of Section 1 of the Bribery Act 2010, of course.

Sorry - they make us do these courses every year, you see ........
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

We were allow to be taken out for meals and be gifted a Diary, all of which had to be put in the "Book".

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xav
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by xav »

MBDA Wins Sea Ceptor Contract From UK MoD For Royal Navy Type 31 Frigates
MBDA’s Sea Ceptor system will protect the Royal Navy’s new Type 31 frigates under a contract awarded by the UK Ministry of Defence.
...
The new contract includes integration of Sea Ceptor with the Type 31’s systems, along with delivery and installation of ship hardware for the Type 31 programme. Designed and made in the UK, the contract forms part of the Portfolio Management Agreement (PMA), a partnership initiated in 2010 between the UK MoD and MBDA on sovereign complex weapons design and production. The PMA delivers world-beating military equipment for the UK Armed Forces and has secured over 4,000 jobs at MBDA UK while generating savings worth over £1.2 billion.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Thanks to Xaviers excellent article, we now have a definitive answer to the question: is CAMM part of the Type 31 government provided equipment and therefore paid for outside of the 1.25billion contract with Babcock's?

The answer is yes, and it "includes integration of Sea Ceptor with the Type 31’s systems, along with delivery and installation of ship hardware".

I wonder if any consideration was given to acquiring CAMM-ER?

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

xav wrote:this new missiles has already been fielded aboard the Royal Navy’s Type 23 frigates and the Royal New Zealand Navy ANZAC-class frigates.
(in the article) Also Chilean navy's T23 already has CAMM onboard.

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

Still no clarification of how many...and I'm still sticking to me guestimate of 24....

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »



"and fast attack craft" Interesting.

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

Well Sea Ceptors is known to have a limited surface to surface capability and it does give the T-31 a longer reach than just its guns, but having only twelve of them means the Captain will have to decide how to priorities which targets to use them on.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

dmereifield wrote:Still no clarification of how many...and I'm still sticking to me guestimate of 24....

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ETH
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ETH »

Jdam wrote:"and fast attack craft" Interesting.
It's been known for a few years that MBDA aspire to give CAMM a surface-attack capability. It has not been live-tested to date.

Dahedd
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Dahedd »

12 missiles per ship is pretty pointless.

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

ETH wrote:
Jdam wrote:"and fast attack craft" Interesting.
It's been known for a few years that MBDA aspire to give CAMM a surface-attack capability. It has not been live-tested to date.

didn't HMS Westminster carry out this test

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Editor of AIR International magazine:



What exactly this means in practical terms is anyone's guess.

Is that GFE going to be the terminals, VLS, or the missiles/cannisters themselves?

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

My guess is that the older 8-missile control boxes will be changed for the newer 12-channel system, but pretty much everything else will be refurb'ed and moved over
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Caribbean wrote:My guess is that the older 8-missile control boxes will be changed for the newer 12-channel system, but pretty much everything else will be refurb'ed and moved over
But, from which hull? She must be decommissioned years before T31 delivery on 2025. As this date includes, first of class ship industry-side trial, HMS Active must be completed by 2024 or even earlier. Including refurbishing, the T23 shall decommission on 2022? and also cannot be exported...

Alternatively, SeaCeptor will be added upon the first maintenance period, AFTER delivery??

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

As per The Sun ( :crazy: exc. that the deputy editor was parachuted in from No 10) it will be from Montrose as Monmouth does not have any fitted:
" the RAF is set to lose 24 Typhoons jets, its 13 strong fleet of Hercules transport planes and the Queen’s four remaining VIP jets.

The Navy will lose two specialist sub-hunting frigates, HMS Montrose and HMS Monmouth, as well as its 13 strong fleet of minehunters which are due to be replaced by drones.

The Army is set to bear the brunt of the cuts with commanders braced to lose 10,000 personnel, four infantry battalions, 77 tanks" etc etc
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

Three new control systems and four new VL tubes and Montrose could provide the remaining hardware for the first three T31, if they only get 12 missiles each. Of course, by the time the last two get built, there should be plenty of decommissioned kit available, so maybe 24 to 36 CAMM on the later two?

Just day-dreaming, but it would give a "Patrol Squadron" of eight (5 x RB2 plus 3 x T31 light) plus a couple of modest Air Defence frigates for use with the littoral strike group(s). Add in the T32 with it's offboard ASW and MCM capabilities and you have a more credible Tier 2 escort force
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Caribbean wrote:Just day-dreaming, but it would give a "Patrol Squadron" of eight (5 x RB2 plus 3 x T31 light) plus a couple of modest Air Defence frigates for use with the littoral strike group(s).
Just as I see it, too.

But by then the RB1s would be gone, so
1 in the (!) Caribbean
1 in Gib (alternating between East or West, West really being to the South)
1 in the Falklands
leaves 2; the Scottish vessels in the North and the repurposed URNUs in the Channel, so one to the East and one to the West

The real Patrol Sqdrn thus being the what-ever number of T31s
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

Ron5 wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Still no clarification of how many...and I'm still sticking to me guestimate of 24....
Believed to be" - why no official confirmation yet? I'm still thinking it will be more than 12

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

All newest official CG clearly shows "12".

Also, "10 to 12 SAM" is the typical of heavy corvette of the day.

A GP frigate (= equivalent to Sloop in modern RN) T21 was armed as the typical of heavy corvette of the day.

I think 12 is a reasonable number, if we take T31 as a GP frigate = Sloop (If taken as a frigate, of course, not enough). But, what is written in the T31RFI document is exactly aiming at a "GP frigate", not a "frigate". If the requirement has not bean changed, outcome MUST not change.

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