Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[Tempest414]

And T31 supporters here, like yourself, cling to the notion that the T31 is an empty canvass and the RN has secret plans and a secret budget to add all the missing capability. Plans that will spring into action as soon as the ships are out of the shipbuilders hands.

Ron some days to open your mouth and your own body weight in shit pour's out . I don't think for one moment that their is a pot of gold for type 31 that will sort out its short comings however there are some points that need to be highlighted

1 ) 250 million is a pitiful amount and if Babcock's put off what they say they can for the money then we need to tip our hats to them

2 ) The MOD agreed to GFE and picked 12 CAMM they could of picked 24 or 36 and a HMS and Babcock's would have fitted them

3 ) Type 31 at this time can't have any SSGW's as the RN has not picked one to fit to any escort in the fleet let alone type 31

4 ) Type 31 could at anytime after it has been delivered be fitted with more CAMM a HMS and SSGW's it will come down to money money money

[Ron5]

And T31 supporters here, like yourself, cling to the notion that the T31 is an empty canvass and the RN has secret plans and a secret budget to add all the missing capability. Plans that will spring into action as soon as the ships are out of the shipbuilders hands.

Ron some days to open your mouth and your own body weight in shit pour's out . I don't think for one moment that their is a pot of gold for type 31 that will sort out its short comings however there are some points that need to be highlighted

1 ) 250 million is a pitiful amount and if Babcock's put off what they say they can for the money then we need to tip our hats to them

2 ) The MOD agreed to GFE and picked 12 CAMM they could of picked 24 or 36 and a HMS and Babcock's would have fitted them

3 ) Type 31 at this time can't have any SSGW's as the RN has not picked one to fit to any escort in the fleet let alone type 31

4 ) Type 31 could at anytime after it has been delivered be fitted with more CAMM a HMS and SSGW's it will come down to money money money

Agree with all of your points. Well the numbered ones anyway

I would add 5) a class of 4 with the same budget would have resulted in a credible frigate. A point made by several others.

But 5 met the "commitment" to Scotland. Which is utter bull.

[Ron5]

PS it occurs to me that you're making such an absurd statement to amuse yourself with the reactions. If so, knock it off.

Ditto

Without identifying anything I said as absurd that's a rather feeble retort. Isn't it?

[Tempest414]

I would add 5) a class of 4 with the same budget would have resulted in a credible frigate. A point made by several others.

But what would make it a credible frigate in your eyes and could Babcocks of got there with another 60 million per ship

[jimthelad]

Back to the news, GB seems to be doing well in Tokyo!

[Lord Jim]

The T31 CAMM fit is 12 tubes and a bargain basement radar.

In comparison, the Sky Sabre British Army system has 8 tubes that can accept CAMM-ER on a single truck and a SAAB Giraffe radar on another one. Rafael supplies the CMS mounted on a 3rd truck.

Sky Sabre can actually have each launcher carry twelve missiles if necessary, but we won't because that is just how we are. Alternatively it could also carry eight Albatross-NG if we went ahead an purchased that as well, using the same radar and CMS, with the minimum of updates.

But a good comparison none the less. I think the top level PPA only carries eight Aster 15 and the French PDI or whatever it is called either the same or sixteen, though some of its Sylver tubes will be used for other weapons I believe.

[Tempest414]

But a good comparison none the less. I think the top level PPA only carries eight Aster 15 and the French PDI or whatever it is called either the same or sixteen, though some of its Sylver tubes will be used for other weapons I believe.

but they could quad pack CAMM or MICA at any point if they push it

[Lord Jim]

The Medium and Low and RRA versions are going to use Albatross-NG quad packed in the eight Sylver launchers. How many I haven't been able to find out, but all version will have the option to have a combination of both, though some minor work will be required. They have done this before having ship designed to be brought up to a higher capability for warfighting by adding addition weapons easily. The PPA is the latest.

[Ron5]

The Medium and Low and RRA versions are going to use Albatross-NG quad packed in the eight Sylver launchers. How many I haven't been able to find out, but all version will have the option to have a combination of both, though some minor work will be required. They have done this before having ship designed to be brought up to a higher capability for warfighting by adding addition weapons easily. The PPA is the latest.

I don't think Sylver will be used in the Italian ships. More likely that will have the same mushrooms as the T31 & T26.

[Lord Jim]

All versions of the PPA with have an eight cell Sylver launcher. They are also using the longer CAMM-ER so would require a modified version of the RN's launch tube with mushroom. I think on the full capability version of the PPA can carry Aster-30 or a combination of this and CAMM-ER but all the other could carry a mix of CAMM-ER and Aster -15, though there is a fair capability crossover between these and a ship could obviously carry far more CAMM-ER than Aster-15. The Radar on the Full Version is more capable than that of the other I believe but all can easily operate CAMM-ER.

OF course this is my understanding of things given what I nave read, and things might have changed with more recent information releases.

[tomuk]

They are also using the longer CAMM-ER so would require a modified version of the RN's launch tube with mushroom.

Alabtross-NG will use the T26/T31 mushrooms. There is no launch tube the missile comes in its own sealed round/launcher.

[Lord Jim]

I know but the one for Albatross-NG is longer and as I said they are fitting a 8 cell Sylver launcher to the various types of PPA but varying the missile load out from what I have read. The aim is to have the Sylver as the standard launcher across the fleet and Albatross-NG and Aster as their two SAM systems based at sea and on land.

[SW1]

[Ron5]

I know but the one for Albatross-NG is longer and as I said they are fitting a 8 cell Sylver launcher to the various types of PPA but varying the missile load out from what I have read. The aim is to have the Sylver as the standard launcher across the fleet and Albatross-NG and Aster as their two SAM systems based at sea and on land.

I'm not sure we're getting through to you. The Italians are not planning on using Sylver for CAMM-ER (Albatros-NG). They will either use the same VLS as the Royal Navy or develop a similar one for themselves.

[tomuk]

Albatros NG naval air defence system detailed

The CAMM ER maritime launching system (MLS) is based on the compact design developments by MBDA UK for the Royal Navy’s Type 26 and Type 31 frigates. The CAMM ER MLS solution is functionally identical to the single cells MLS for Type 23 frigates, characterized by a basic but cost effective solution, which sees the single missile launch canister with the same upper chimney assembly of the CAMM, maintaining the same bolting mechanism to the ship through a simple shock mount, without a dedicated launcher system and ancillaries with related weight, power and space requirements. The solution selected for the new UK Type 26 and Type 31 frigates’ MLS is based on a multiple of new six-cell (2×3) modules characterized by a reduced footprint allowing for more missiles to be accommodated in the same space of the Type 23 solution. The Albatros NG MLS is based on the same six-cell baseline solution, except for longer canisters due to the CAMM ER extended length. The modules are spaced to allow canisters inspection.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/albatros-ng- ... m-detailed

[Lord Jim]

I stand corrected, so the Top line PPA will have the Sylver launcher for Aster, and the Middle and Bottom line versions will have a number of the six tube Albatross-NG launchers.

The ease of installation of the MLS should mean adding Sea Ceptor or increasing existing load outs being a relatively simple operation limited only by space, something the T-31 is not short of.

[J. Tattersall]

What will be interesting its the through life upgrading of the T31s. Will they go essentially unchanged like the T21s or be extensively modified like the T12/ Leanders? What is good is that there's extensive volume in the T31 to make/derisk future modification.

[Ron5]

What will be interesting its the through life upgrading of the T31s. Will they go essentially unchanged like the T21s or be extensively modified like the T12/ Leanders? What is good is that there's extensive volume in the T31 to make/derisk future modification.

The National Shipbuilding Strategy says no major upgrades. Sell them off cheap and build replacements. Of course the author is ex-Babcocks chief so he might be a tad biassed

On recent government (Treasury) history, most likely will be lifex after lifex until they can't float anymore.

[J. Tattersall]

On recent government (Treasury) history

Really can you give us a specific example of what HMT did?

[RichardIC]

Will they go essentially unchanged like the T21s or be extensively modified like the T12/ Leanders?

I hope they're not modified like the Leanders. Cost a fortune and represented terrible value-for-money.

[J. Tattersall]

Will they go essentially unchanged like the T21s or be extensively modified like the T12/ Leanders?

I hope they're not modified like the Leanders. Cost a fortune and represented terrible value-for-money.

Leanders were good for their ubiquity in numbers, but I agree there really was a step change needed beyond the T12 and the Leanders didn't provide it.

[Scimitar54]

Do not forget that all of the 26 x RN Leander Class Frigates were built as General Purpose Frigates. They only became specialised as a result of their particular Mid-Life Re-fits.

[ETH]

Do not forget that all of the 26 x RN Leander Class Frigates were built as General Purpose Frigates.

26 GP frigates, it's been a long spiral downwards since then...

[Scimitar54]

Plus the Tribal class GP Frigates, can’t remember if that would be +7, or +8!

[Ron5]

On recent government (Treasury) history

Really can you give us a specific example of what HMT did?

What i actually said:

The National Shipbuilding Strategy says no major upgrades. Sell them off cheap and build replacements. Of course the author is ex-Babcocks chief so he might be a tad biassed .

On recent government (Treasury) history, most likely will be lifex after lifex until they can't float anymore.

Type 23's.

Really not liking your selective quoting. Stop doing that. Put comments in their complete context.