Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Jake1992
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jake1992 »

Timmymagic wrote: I just can't see the point of V-22 or V-247 as AAR platforms. CMV-22 for COD, CSAR and AAR as a small, limited bonus perhaps. V-247 for AEW, UCAV or ISTAR make sense. It just doesn't appear to come close to passing a cost/benefit analysis.
This is my thinking in what we should be aiming for but I do think increasing an F35Bs range by 2/3 is more of a plus than you seem to. Comparing it to a voyager is non sensical IMO as no ship born AAR will come close to what it offers but the point of ship born AAR is to give a smaller version of that capability in an area where voyager can’t get to due to a multitude of reasons.

If your buying a variant of the V-22 for COD you might as well get a couple more with the removable AAR set up. But yes as always it comes down to money and IMO the decision making needs to be taken further away from the treasury across all departments.

seaspear
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by seaspear »

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ge-459856/
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... 35-engine/
The above articles suggests that increasing the range of the aircraft will come through engine upgrades ,perhaps rootary air to air refueling may be considered not increase for the range of the aircraft but the time spent over the mission , meeeting such aircraft on the way back from such mission because any rotary craft will not be stealthy to any radar

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

From the first linked article above: the F-35's P&W F135 engine could be swapped out for one of the new adaptive units in the mid-2020s.
- have said before that this could be the reason why we are going so slow with the procurement (cost avoidance)
- lack of pilots (thanks to the 2010 throttling of the training pipeline, plus messing up what remained with the privatisation/ outsourcing) could be a contributing factor
- let's not mention money...[return to point 1 above :) ]
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

seaspear
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by seaspear »

https://www.timesofisrael.com/cost-of-p ... -next-year
Of course another big reason to have a slow aquisition rate is the continuing fall of the cost of these planes ,to for instance buy a large number for the carriers before they even come into service a few years ago would have cost a lot more on the unit price then , and perhaps this was deliberate in the ordering to save money ,should the ministry be congratulated for this parsimony or am I going too far lol

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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A lot of tug movements around PWLS according to Marine Traffic at the moment, she may well be on her way out if anyone local wants to pop down and have a gander. It will be interesting to see what she does after leaving Invergordon, I have a feeling she may well venture out and head for different seas... ;)

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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then:


bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

As I understand from previous posts when PWLS left Rosyth there was quite a lot of work needed to be completed, and so when she set sail she had a lot of civilian workers on board. Has there been any updates on that work.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

bobp wrote:As I understand from previous posts when PWLS left Rosyth there was quite a lot of work needed to be completed, and so when she set sail she had a lot of civilian workers on board. Has there been any updates on that work.
I think there are some Civies still on board but not sure what they are up to. Also, PWLS AIS has been off for over 8 hours...wonder where she has gone! 8-)

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

PhillyJ wrote:I think there are some Civies still on board but not sure what they are up to. Also, PWLS AIS has been off for over 8 hours...wonder where she has gone!
Hopefully on her way to Portsmouth soon.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

bobp wrote:
PhillyJ wrote:I think there are some Civies still on board but not sure what they are up to. Also, PWLS AIS has been off for over 8 hours...wonder where she has gone!
Hopefully on her way to Portsmouth soon.
Definitely, possibly sooner than many are expecting. 8-)

Dahedd
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Dahedd »

She's apparently up off Fraserburgh just now, seems to have been a fav spot. Annoying as I've stuff to do in Lossie this morning, was hoping I'd see her before she went back south.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

Dahedd wrote:She's apparently up off Fraserburgh just now, seems to have been a fav spot. Annoying as I've stuff to do in Lossie this morning, was hoping I'd see her before she went back south.
That's certainly where her last recorded AIS was from, perhaps they are taking a breather!

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Timmymagic
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Timmymagic »

PhillyJ wrote:I think there are some Civies still on board but not sure what they are up to.
IIRC there were some compartments that were still being finished....hopefully high speed turns don't affect the quality of the workmanship...

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

Timmymagic wrote:
PhillyJ wrote:I think there are some Civies still on board but not sure what they are up to.
IIRC there were some compartments that were still being finished....hopefully high speed turns don't affect the quality of the workmanship...
Hope my nipper wasn't on 'gash' duty at that time either, would hate for someone to fall in the machine! He chose that over cleaning the boat deck as he has been doing this since January and also gets extra £'s a day sorting the rubbish. :lolno:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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This is rather nicely done.


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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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(Navy Lookout/STRN) 10th November 2019
HMS Queen Elizabeth held Remembrance Day service while at sea on Westlant19 deployment off East Coast of US.

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Britain's Biggest Warship, second series. The new and latest third episode is at the bottom.

S2E1/3


S2E2/3


S2E3/3

inch
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by inch »

Just been looking on ukdefence journal and a pic of c de q carrier and 2 qe class ships ,is that the right scale next too each other? it's just that qe is only 20mts longer and a f35 is about 15mts ish ,so if a f35 stuck on end of c de q carrier and a fraction more for 20mts ,it just seems longer ? But I could be totally wrong as I have been before about stuff ?

Jake1992
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jake1992 »

inch wrote:Just been looking on ukdefence journal and a pic of c de q carrier and 2 qe class ships ,is that the right scale next too each other? it's just that qe is only 20mts longer and a f35 is about 15mts ish ,so if a f35 stuck on end of c de q carrier and a fraction more for 20mts ,it just seems longer ? But I could be totally wrong as I have been before about stuff ?
CDG is 260m long and the QEs are 280-284m depending where you get the info from but the big difference is in the beam CDG at its max beam is 64m and then gets narrower where the QEs are 73m for the whole length.

Originally the QEs in the alpha design were meant to be 300m but were stripped right back, after a lot of arguing the RN was able to get everything back that was striped away besides the extra 20m in length and the pod thrusters.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

Jake1992 wrote:Originally the QEs in the alpha design were meant to be 300m but were stripped right back, after a lot of arguing the RN was able to get everything back that was striped away besides the extra 20m in length and the pod thrusters.
Gutted that they couldn't stretch to those pod thrusters just like they have on Spectrum Cloudbase! Also, keep eyes and ears peeled for PWLS entry to Pompey news, no official date yet but I'm lead to believe it could be soon.

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Image
Image
Image
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(@HMSPWLS) 10th November 2019
Today we paused alongside our industry partners to reflect and pay respect during a ceremony of remembrance in our hangar.

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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cockneyjock1974
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by cockneyjock1974 »

I take it from episode 3, SRVL is a tricky one. Or perhaps artistic licence from the director. Is it the case that SRVL can only be performed in calm seas/weather or were they playing it cautious?
If anybody can throw some light on this, it would be good. I just hope it’s not a red hearing. I Just feel it should be the norm for QE class landings, engine wear and tear alone.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Timmymagic »

cockneyjock1974 wrote:I take it from episode 3, SRVL is a tricky one. Or perhaps artistic licence from the director. Is it the case that SRVL can only be performed in calm seas/weather or were they playing it cautious?
I think there was a little artistic licence to make it more dramatic (not that it wasn't). The initial SRVL's were done a little slower than what was expected at 40 knots. But it was the first one, no doubt they'll expand the envelope further with weight and speed (think 60 knots has been mentioned before). A lot will depend on the speed of the ship and the strength of the wind.
cockneyjock1974 wrote:I Just feel it should be the norm for QE class landings, engine wear and tear alone.
It looks like VL will still be the 'normal' method of getting back on. A couple of interviews so far have said that. But I would have thought that pilots will have to practice SRVL quite a lot in order to become proficient, particularly as when they have to use it will be when the aircraft is heavy with fuel and bombs. So I do wonder if when someone says it will be rare if that is credible.

I suspect the RN is going to keep on assessing it for a while, especially with the Bedford Array on PoW. I would hope someone was also looking at the US JPALS which in conjunction with the aircraft control rules already developed could do the landing automatically.

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