Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
jonas
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by jonas »

A pale imitation of carrier strike :-

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/a-pale ... er-strike/

Aethulwulf
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Aethulwulf »

For CSG21, Jane's is reporting that Cdre Orchard (FAA Head) states the group will deploy with:

5 Crowsnest Merlin
4 Wildcat HM2, with Martlet, operating primarily on T45 and T23
1 Merlin HC4

(Plus F35s and Merlin HM2.)

In addition, although Sea Venom IOC is delayed until 2022, some Sea Venom may be deployed ahead of IOC.

The Crowsnest system may receive software upgrades during the CSG21 deployment.

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Leads a tiny bit of credence to my swag that software is the Crowsnest problem.

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

PhillyJ wrote:QNLZ coming home tomorrow apparently, nothing on QHM website yet but I assume HMNB should know!

Is she going back out after another resupply? as I read somewhere that she will meet up usmc jets, or is that going to be closer to CSG21 ? autumn? I might be mis - understanding whats happening now :oops:

Lord Jim
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

jonas wrote:A pale imitation of carrier strike :-
Well there is a faint glimmer of positive thinking in the article but on the whole it neatly sums up UK defence as a whole, ew are basically not putting enough money into defence and the programme management of both the MoD and Industry leaves much to be desired. Nobody expected the RN to be able to conduct "CEPP max" but the slow progress of the various components mean it may never be achieved. As a result the are likely to end up with platforms that at best will only ever operate at say 60 percent of their true capability, and this could be reduced further is programmes like the replacement for the Merlin are underfunded and the airframes of the various aircraft reach the end of the hours prematurely form being worked harder than originally planned. The idea that the FSS may not be available until the latter half of the 2020s is just one of the negative issues that are going to drag down what should have been a real boost to the UK's global capability, but we are where we are and with everything that has happened over the last six months the chances of any improvement are slim and unlikely to begin to appear until the 2030s. As the title of he Article points out we will have two magnificent ships, but there has been no follow through to give them the tools to do what they were supposed to. Rather than boost the UK's image the result will be to show the negative side of the UK's defence.

Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

Aethulwulf wrote:For CSG21, Jane's is reporting that Cdre Orchard (FAA Head) states the group will deploy with:

5 Crowsnest Merlin
4 Wildcat HM2, with Martlet, operating primarily on T45 and T23
1 Merlin HC4

(Plus F35s and Merlin HM2.)

In addition, although Sea Venom IOC is delayed until 2022, some Sea Venom may be deployed ahead of IOC.

The Crowsnest system may receive software upgrades during the CSG21 deployment.
If that's not including HM2 then there should still be a relatively decent force overall, 35-40 aircraft total depending on the F-35B load out (I've heard 16 and 24), better than I was expecting, particularly from AEW.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Max Jones wrote:better than I was expecting, particularly from AEW.
Yes. It has often been stated that 4 (rotary) a/c is the minimum for maintaining 24hr cover, not all the time, but when you want (to test) it. So one spare, up from the minimum
- but: 50% of the planned total
- so in the future, if even one (roll on/off) set will have to be left behind, one of the carriers will be sailing "without mechanical breakdown cover"*). Not a problem as long as they sail together, in loose terms

---------
*) a tedious remedy is to be doing constant rolling on and off
NB The 5+5 AEW Merlins to be drawn from a low total number. Don't have the Merlin figure to hand, but for the two other heavier types the recent breakdown (oops) was as follows: Out of 60 Chinook helicopters, 41 in forward fleet, while only seven of 23 Pumas were and the rest in sustainment fleet [could indicate that Pumas only come out for troop training, but regardless].
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »




09:00 - QE is nearing Portsmouth, she is currently east of the IOW, off the Nab Tower and is doing 10 kts. Four tugs have gone out to meet her.

HMS Warrior's webcam will be streaming QE's entry soon. http://www.hmswarrior.org/webcam

Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Max Jones wrote:better than I was expecting, particularly from AEW.
Yes. It has often been stated that 4 (rotary) a/c is the minimum for maintaining 24hr cover, not all the time, but when you want (to test) it. So one spare, up from the minimum
- but: 50% of the planned total
- so in the future, if even one (roll on/off) set will have to be left behind, one of the carriers will be sailing "without mechanical breakdown cover"*). Not a problem as long as they sail together, in loose terms

---------
*) a tedious remedy is to be doing constant rolling on and off
NB The 5+5 AEW Merlins to be drawn from a low total number. Don't have the Merlin figure to hand, but for the two other heavier types the recent breakdown (oops) was as follows: Out of 60 Chinook helicopters, 41 in forward fleet, while only seven of 23 Pumas were and the rest in sustainment fleet [could indicate that Pumas only come out for troop training, but regardless].
is 5 low for planned operations? I heard there were only plans for 4-5 AEW aircraft deployed at any time on the aircraft. More would of course be ideal for broader coverage, but I heard there were only plans for up to 10 in total anyway so, accounting for other aircraft in maintenance or training, it seems like 6-7 would be a realistic maximum for wartime operations anyway.

Still, compared to a previous report of 3 Crowsnest and of course more recent suggestions that there won't be any, this is definitely a big improvement.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Max Jones wrote:it seems like 6-7 would be a realistic maximum for wartime operations anyway
7.1 is perfectly in line with the (l-t) average 1.4 carrier availability
... someone in the MoD (Treasury?) did the math while :D setting the budget
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »


(ships, planes and gaming) 2nd July 2020



Now berthed at Victory Jetty for her second time.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

Popped down to see QNLZ return home, never tire of seeing the QE class come in or out of Pompey regardless of all the issues still surrounding them.

I was officially at an external meeting (well it was outside and I met some people) and as I'm being made redundant and have 3 months notice to work sod 'em! Took my 2 youngest kids down, included a History lesson for them on the old Spice Island and King James gate and also Physics in to how to get the perfect stone to skip more than once.

Eldest lad was asleep on PWLS due to being on gangway watch from 0300 to 0600 this morning, not sure he would have been impressed with the wake up call from his sister ship at about 1020 though! :lol: 8-)

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

PoW gets first Phalanx
Image
(@NavyLookout) 2nd July 2020
First Phalanx CIWS mount installed on board @HMSPWLS
:clap: :thumbup:

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

PhillyJ wrote:Popped down to see QNLZ return home, never tire of seeing the QE class come in or out of Pompey regardless of all the issues still surrounding them.

I was officially at an external meeting (well it was outside and I met some people) and as I'm being made redundant and have 3 months notice to work sod 'em! Took my 2 youngest kids down, included a History lesson for them on the old Spice Island and King James gate and also Physics in to how to get the perfect stone to skip more than once.

Eldest lad was asleep on PWLS due to being on gangway watch from 0300 to 0600 this morning, not sure he would have been impressed with the wake up call from his sister ship at about 1020 though! :lol: 8-)
Fingers crossed you get another job soon.

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

SKB wrote:PoW gets first Phalanx
Image
(@NavyLookout) 2nd July 2020
First Phalanx CIWS mount installed on board @HMSPWLS
:clap: :thumbup:
Young Philly ain't the only one taking a nap :D

abc123
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by abc123 »

PhillyJ wrote:Popped down to see QNLZ return home, never tire of seeing the QE class come in or out of Pompey regardless of all the issues still surrounding them.

I was officially at an external meeting (well it was outside and I met some people) and as I'm being made redundant and have 3 months notice to work sod 'em! Took my 2 youngest kids down, included a History lesson for them on the old Spice Island and King James gate and also Physics in to how to get the perfect stone to skip more than once.

Eldest lad was asleep on PWLS due to being on gangway watch from 0300 to 0600 this morning, not sure he would have been impressed with the wake up call from his sister ship at about 1020 though! :lol: 8-)
As Ron said, fingers crossed that you find another job soon.
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What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
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bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

PhillyJ wrote:I'm being made redundant
Sad news, we are living in uncertain times. Getting a new post will not be easy, as many more will be made jobless.

jonas
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by jonas »

bobp wrote:
PhillyJ wrote:I'm being made redundant
Sad news, we are living in uncertain times. Getting a new post will not be easy, as many more will be made jobless.
Please don't ever volunteer for the Samaritans :cry:

bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

I will try hard to be positive in future, though finding life hard being locked up since march.

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

Important points to Note and Remember:-

1. IT IS NOT YOU that is being made redundant. The job role is what is really being made redundant!
2. You have skills, the ability to learn (and experience of life) to offer another employer.
3. YOU WILL find another job, even if it may be less rewarding at first (and to quote from “If” by Rudyard Kipling)
“Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools”.
4. Do not forget to “Keep Posting”! :thumbup:

Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/from-p ... son-ocean/

Summary of Exercise Crimson Ocean. Apparently, there's a larger exercise to fully simulate the CSG coming up in October:
'First up will be the Autumn GroupEx which will see a 400% increase in the size of the air wing over Crimson Ocean, participation by the US Marine Corps and a larger group of escort vessels.'

dmereifield
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

Scimitar54 wrote:Important points to Note and Remember:-

1. IT IS NOT YOU that is being made redundant. The job role is what is really being made redundant!
2. You have skills, the ability to learn (and experience of life) to offer another employer.
3. YOU WILL find another job, even if it may be less rewarding at first (and to quote from “If” by Rudyard Kipling)
“Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools”.
4. Do not forget to “Keep Posting”! :thumbup:
You could volunteer for the Samaritans

Lord Jim
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

And maybe cut down on the caffeine.

Roders96
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Roders96 »

For what it's worth on the jobs front:

Andy Haldane signals inflation fears as he hails rapid UK recovery

https://on.ft.com/3ePDMMg

"The Bank of England’s chief economist has said the UK economy is recovering much faster from the coronavirus lockdown than the central bank had expected, casting doubt on the need for further stimulus.

The recovery is “so far, so V [shaped]”, Andy Haldane said in an online presentation, explaining that he voted against pumping another £100bn of newly created money into the economy because the “upside news on demand had outweighed the other negative news on the outlook”.

Mr Haldane’s speech laid bare the tensions within the BoE between a desire to help the government in its drive to support the economy and protect jobs, and its mandate to keep inflation under control.

In a minority of one on the nine-strong monetary policy committee in its June meeting, Mr Haldane said the emerging data showing the deepest recession in many hundreds of years [was] already “ancient history”.

He was concentrating on real-time indicators that showed the recovery was significantly faster than the BoE had expected in its most recent forecast from May.

If spending levels were maintained from current levels on the path the bank forecast in May, the economy would be 3 per cent larger than expected over the next few years, implying inflation would be one percentage point higher than forecast.

Applying rules of thumb used by economists, Mr Haldane said that these considerations suggested the official interest rate should be about one percentage point higher than it was currently to maintain stable inflation around the BoE’s 2 per cent target."

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

explaining that he voted against pumping another £100bn of newly created money into the economy
[quote"]
In a minority of one on the nine-strong monetary policy committee[/quote]

House prices down 3% from April, new mortgages down by 85%
= 'rock solid' sentiment?

WW2 debts became fully paid back only in the last decade. Has anyone asked when the current ones will get amortised?
Printing money is the other side of somehow getting it injected (public debt, and then handing it out). The massive EU package (not finalised) would be zeroed by 2058, just for the order of magnitude as to the drag effect caused by the recent events. Something has to give; Haldane says inflation. Only a part answer... what else; which takes us back to defence expenditure:
= two carriers, or just one,
= planes for both, or just for one, etc, etc
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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